Groups Vs Networks: The Class Struggle Continues ~ Stephen's Web ~ by Stephen ... - The Diigo Meta page

• 19 Oct 09
  

  Diego Leal

  gryc09 networks groups

• 03 Oct 09
  

  Luz Pearson
  • want to change the system of assessment in schools because right now we have tests and things like that that are scrupulously fair, particularly distance learning where we outline the objectives the performance metrics and the outcomes and all of that. I want to scrap that system. I want testing to be done by at random by comments from your peers and other people and strangers based on no criteria whatsoever and applied unequally and unfairly.
    
    And people say, "Well, why would you want that?"
    
    And I said, "Well, that's the way the world works."
    
• 30 Sep 09
  

  Eric Calvert
  • groups require unity and networks require diversity. Groups require coherence, networks require autonomy and so on.
  • a network is like an ecosystem where there is no requirement that all the entities be the same, where the nature of the entity isn't specifically relevant, where the number of entities isn't specifically relevant.
  • 10 more annotations...
  • • I want to change the system of assessment in schools because right now we have tests and things like that that are scrupulously fair, particularly distance learning where we outline the objectives the performance metrics and the outcomes and all of that. I want to scrap that system. I want testing to be done by at random by comments from your peers and other people and strangers based on no criteria whatsoever and applied unequally and unfairly.
      
      And people say, "Well, why would you want that?"
      
      And I said, "Well, that's the way the world works."
    • Interaction in a network isn't about leaders and followers. It's about, as I say here, a mutual exchange of value.
    • People don't follow, they don't do what they're told in a network. They interact. They make their own decisions, but not completely independently all on their own, not all by their lonesome. They interact with other people. But they make their own decisions.
    • And you think about the technology now that encourages autonomy rather than conformance. E-portfolios is being touted as this sort of technology. The same with the personal learning environments (and you might not know what that is yet because they're new, but if you look that up on Google, you'll find stuff on personal learning environments) and that's the autonomous answer, the network answer to the learning management system. And it's based on a radical concept. Students can learn autonomously. Who would have believed?
    • The only way a word becomes a word is if you let go of it.
    • Groups are distributive
    • 
      Networks are distributed.
    • Human beings resemble ecosystems more than they resemble lumps of metal.
    • Because the knowledge comes from the authority, from the center, even if there's consultation and all of that, the knowledge of groups is limited by the capacity of the leader to know things. This is why dictatorships are so bad; dictators, as smart as they are (and some of them are very smart) just simply aren't capable of running an entire country by themselves.
    • The knowledge is not in any given individual, but it's a property of the network as a whole.
• 29 Sep 09
  

  gobibijou
  • groups require unity and networks require diversity. Groups require coherence, networks require autonomy and so on
  • Networks offers that path that isn't the individual and isn't the group
• 31 May 09
  

  Carla Arena

  downes connectivism networks learning groups cck08

• 11 Apr 09
  

  Gabi Witthaus

  connectivism groups networks downes learning cck08

• 24 Mar 09
  

  Silvia Andreoli

  research_network connectivism cck08

• 24 Feb 09
  

  Rebecca Hatherley

  This is the transcript for the talk I gave September 298, 2006, at e-Fest in Wellington, New Zealand. It's my first extended discussion of groups and networks. Slides and audio are

  connectivism groups learning Downes

• 10 Dec 08
  

  Joh Fra

  downes networks connectivism learning cck08 groups

• 30 Nov 08
  

  José Mota

  downes groups.vs.networks connectivism tese wisdom.of.crowds

• 14 Nov 08
  

  roland legrand

  groups networks crowds wisdomofcrowds virtualcommunities

• 13 Nov 08
  

  jlearn 2.0

  Stephen Downes' transcript of talk he gave in 2006. Posted November 24, 2007.

  cck08 networks cops community

• 25 Oct 08
  

  Birgit Ferran

  networks groups articles learning

• 13 Oct 08
  

  Chuck Brands
• 

  mrs durff
  • Networks offers that path that isn't the individual and isn't the group
• 10 Oct 08
  

  Joost Robben
  • Mostly, schools, colleges, universities have been reacting to these new technologies by blocking them
  • there's the age-old danger of explorers that when we go to their world, we're going to want to colonize it
  • 33 more annotations...
  • • Identity Production in a Networked Culture
    • groups and networks.
    • a group is a collection of entities or members according to their nature or their feature or their properties or whatever, their essential nature, maybe, their accidental nature, maybe, whatever, but according to their nature. What defines a group is the quality the members possess in common and then the number of members in that group. Groups are about nature, they're about quality, they're about mass. They're about number
    • network, by contrast, is an association – I use that word very precisely – an association of entities or members where this association is facilitated or created by a set of connections between those entities
    • Can we even think of classes without at the same time thinking about the attributes of groups
    • democracy is a group phenomenon
    • A network is different from that
    • a network is like an ecosystem
    • And the question is, can we have order, responsibility, identity, all of that good stuff, inside an ecosystem?
    • I want to change the system of assessment in schools
    • I want testing to be done by at random by comments from your peers and other people and strangers based on no criteria whatsoever and applied unequally and unfairly
    • groups are defined by their unity
    • technologies specifically designed for the group
    • Online, we do pretty much the same thing
    • Networks are almost defined by the opposite
    • melting pot. In Canada, we were all taught, is a salad bowl
    • set of connections
    • email address is your institutional address. How did that come to be? Imagine if your personal mail address, the mail that you get from your grandmother, came through your employer and had to be sent to your employer before it got to you. It just seems odd
    • A group is defined by its values
    • most of learning technology is intended to support this picture
    • Networks, by contrast, require autonomy. That is to say each individual in a network operates independently. That does not mean they operate alone.
    • technology now that encourages autonomy rather than conformance. E-portfolios is being touted as this sort of technology
    • Students can learn autonomously.
    • communities of practices w
    • Networks are distributed. In a network, there is no locus of knowledge
    • idea or the concept will become common throughout the network and not otherwise
    • power law in networks
    • ong tail
    • power law of distribution is more characteristic of groups than it is of networks
    • nature of the knower.
    • quality of the knowledge
    • nature of the knowledge
    • in a network, the knowledge is emergent.
• 06 Oct 08
  

  Gina Minks
  • they're locked down

    • 

      Gina Minks on 2008-10-06

      The reason things are locked down is that there is a cost to run them. Students pay for the services with their fees. Many times the lockdown is not to keep info in our out, but to reliable provide access to a given resource.
  • something more imaginative than blocking this technology

    • 

      Gina Minks on 2008-10-06

      But to do this you have to know why things are blocked. Some of the new resources behave badly in a big network, draining resource, rendering it unusable. Some new tools are misused by some to transport viruses that can again render the network unusable. There are some cases where blocking things is actually done to ensure network reliablility for all users.
  • 2 more annotations...
  • • picture

      • 

        Gina Minks on 2008-10-06

        Where is the picture?
      • 

        mrs durff on 2008-10-13

        I don't see it either.
    • Managing learning.

      • 

        Gina Minks on 2008-10-06

        so --- if you have to deliver the same training over and over again, how do you do this and make sure the key points are delivered if you don't have managed learning?
• 

  Carmen Tschofen

  downes groups networks

  • And it seems to me that networks offers that middle way. Networks offers that path that isn't the individual and isn't the group, doesn't force you to choose between the individual and the group. I am saying this because as soon as I came up with this "groups versus networks" people are looking at that and saying, "Well what's the middle way with that?" And I thought, "Wait a sec, this is the middle way.
  • Groups are about nature, they're about quality, they're about mass. They're about number.
    
    A network, by contrast, is an association – I use that word very precisely – an association of entities or members where this association is facilitated or created by a set of connections between those entities.
  • 20 more annotations...
  • • Interestingly, democracy is a group phenomenon. Democracy is a bunch of people who are relevantly the same,
    • a network is like an ecosystem where there is no requirement that all the entities be the same, where the nature of the entity isn't specifically relevant, where the number of entities isn't specifically relevant.
    • so he brings the concept of universal law that applies equally and the same to everybody in Athens. And it's funny how that has survived as an essential and elemental concept in learning today.
    • I want testing to be done by at random by comments from your peers and other people and strangers based on no criteria whatsoever and applied unequally and unfairly.
      
      And people say, "Well, why would you want that?"
      
      And I said, "Well, that's the way the world works."
      
      But the point of that remark is to try to pull apart this idea of universality, everything being the same and learning. Do we need, as is suggested, do we need the iron hand of justice in our classrooms?
    • And the United States, like groups, constitutes a melting pot. In Canada, we were all taught, is a salad bowl
    • was it indoctrination or were they right? And after many years, I've come to the conclusion they were right. And so there is this idea of the network, there is this idea of distinctness and diversity in an environment where people are encouraged not to be the same, but to be different.
    • what defines these things is the set of connections between the individuals and not the content of what's going out.
    • Groups require coordination. They require a leadership or a leader which is why we get all of this stuff on leadership. It's the funniest thing, all these things on leadership, because I read these and it's like everybody needs to be a leader, but my experience of groups is usually one leader and a bunch of followers
    • I look at groups as somebody else's leadership, somebody else I'm responsible to. I have to follow his or her vision, as being "responsible" assumes that I'm under somebody. People picture groups, but they don't picture them in terms of their actual role in the group. They picture them in terms of the role they would like to play in the group. It's a philosophy of aspiration rather than a philosophy of reality.
    • the person who came up with the concept of the vision statement should be thrown out the window.
    • Learning design, where the learning is organized, sliced, diced, flaked and formed and you follow in a row or you're not a learner.
    • Networks, by contrast, require autonomy. That is to say each individual in a network operates independently. That does not mean they operate alone. What that does mean is – because remember, it's a network, you're connected, you talk to people, they talk to you – it means you define your vision. It means you define what's going to be important to you, your values and interests.
    • Interaction in a network isn't about leaders and followers. It's about, as I say here, a mutual exchange of value.
    • Oh, but we're in this institutional environment. We have to do what we're told."
      
      And my response is, "Who said so?" I mean, why? I mean the worst thing they could do is fire you and then you'd be free,
    • But if you read and listen to all this pedagogical theory, it's like, "gee, if we don't take them by the hand and lead them through this, they'll be hopelessly lost and they'll never learn anything at all."
    • That's our theory of learning. If somebody wants to come in and listen, we stop them.
    • It's the long tail and all of these individuals of just two or three links, but the thing is, you know, this message is being given to us mostly by people who are in what I call the big spike, the A-listers. And they're sitting there saying, "Look at this power law. We're out here. We're making a mint."
      
      But the thing is, that power law of distribution is more characteristic of groups than it is of networks. A network, properly constructed, will not see that configuration where two percent of all the people own 80 percent of all the wealth. Rather, it becomes more distributed – the more evenly you distribute your links, the more evenly you distribute your wealth.
    • the knowledge of groups is limited by the capacity of the leader
    • Those of you who are into learning theory think more about transaction theory, of communication theory. It goes from here to here to here to here. And consequently, that limits the type of knowledge that can be created and communicated.
    • But in a network, the knowledge is emergent.
• 

  Benjamin Stewart
  • I want testing to be done by at random by comments from your peers and other people and strangers based on no criteria whatsoever and applied unequally and unfairly.
  • Networks are almost defined by the opposite, defined by their diversity.
  • 6 more annotations...
  • • Groups require coordination. They require a leadership or a leader which is why we get all of this stuff on leadership. It's the funniest thing, all these things on leadership, because I read these and it's like everybody needs to be a leader, but my experience of groups is usually one leader and a bunch of followers and, you know, I want to see the new business book that says, "Everyone should be a follower." But no. I always look at these things from the point of view of the follower
    • A group is defined by its values. I said yesterday and I say it again today, the person who came up with the concept of the vision statement should be thrown out the window. Because think about it. You're in some institution. The powers that be from on high come down with a vision statement. You read the vision statement. How many of you go, "Yeah, that's my purpose in life?" And what follows is a long, protracted exercise to get you to replace whatever vision you had with the vision of the group. And it seems odd. Groups define standards. Groups define belonging.
    • Interaction in a network isn't about leaders and followers. It's about, as I say here, a mutual exchange of value.
    • People don't follow, they don't do what they're told in a network. They interact.
    • And you think about the technology now that encourages autonomy rather than conformance. E-portfolios is being touted as this sort of technology. The same with the personal learning environments (and you might not know what that is yet because they're new, but if you look that up on Google, you'll find stuff on personal learning environments) and that's the autonomous answer, the network answer to the learning management system. And it's based on a radical concept. Students can learn autonomously. Who would have believed?
    • But in a network, the knowledge is emergent. The knowledge is not in any given individual, but it's a property of the network as a whole.
• 

  mat Wall-Smith

  groups networks connectivism elearning edupunk educational_technology

• 05 Oct 08
  

  Christy Tucker

  Transcript of a talk about the differences between groups and networks. Downes situates networks between individuals and groups, as a place where individuals are associated and connected but more diverse than groups. Interesting ideas for assessment and supporting diversity.

  connectivism cck08 networks learning assessment diversity

  • Those of you who've taken political science know that all of human history in political science is the division between the individual and the state. Right? The person and the group, right? And these are the two divides. And the whole purpose of politics is to find some sort of accommodation for them or if you're Ayn Rand, to favor the individual and ignore the group.
    
    And it seems to me that networks offers that middle way. Networks offers that path that isn't the individual and isn't the group, doesn't force you to choose between the individual and the group.
  • But more or less, a group is a collection of entities or members according to their nature or their feature or their properties or whatever, their essential nature, maybe, their accidental nature, maybe, whatever, but according to their nature. What defines a group is the quality the members possess in common and then the number of members in that group. Groups are about nature, they're about quality, they're about mass. They're about number.
    
    A network, by contrast, is an association – I use that word very precisely – an association of entities or members where this association is facilitated or created by a set of connections between those entities. And if you say, "Well what is a connection?" A connection is merely some conduit along which a signal can run. Well, that clarified it, didn't it? What defines a network is the nature and the extent of this connectivity. The nature and the extent to which these individuals are connected together.
  • 3 more annotations...
  • • I want to change the system of assessment in schools because right now we have tests and things like that that are scrupulously fair, particularly distance learning where we outline the objectives the performance metrics and the outcomes and all of that. I want to scrap that system. I want testing to be done by at random by comments from your peers and other people and strangers based on no criteria whatsoever and applied unequally and unfairly.
    • Networks are almost defined by the opposite, defined by their diversity. A network thrives on diversity. It wouldn't be a network without diversity.
    • Internet technology that encourages diversity rather than conformity includes things like personal home pages or these days, blogs. I should add to this slide MySpace profiles and things like that, your account on Flickr. All of these things that allows the individual to express themselves rather than the individual being part of some larger entity.
• 

  Zsolt Kulcsár
  • And I know there are good reasons for that and I know there's security and all of that, but you know, I mean security is like walls.
  • Actually, I was a senior wizard. I was very proud of that – more proud of that than my BA
  • 9 more annotations...
  • • MUDS are like Second Life except without the graphics. Funny how you describe things – how that changes over time.
    • groups require unity and networks require diversity. Groups require coherence, networks require autonomy and so on.
    • And it seems to me that networks offers that middle way.
    • A network is different from that
    • Groups require coordination
    • A group is defined by its values.
    • In learning technology – most of learning technology is intended to support this picture – we have the learning management system. Managing learning.
    • Networks, by contrast, require autonomy
    • Interaction in a network isn't about leaders and followers. It's about, as I say here, a mutual exchange of value.
• 

  Maru del Campo

  CCK08 downes week5 network frommydelicious

Public Stiky Notes

• 
  Gina Minks on 2008-10-06
  The reason things are locked down is that there is a cost to run them. Students pay for the services with their fees. Many times the lockdown is not to keep info in our out, but to reliable provide access to a given resource.
• 
  Gina Minks on 2008-10-06
  But to do this you have to know why things are blocked. Some of the new resources behave badly in a big network, draining resource, rendering it unusable. Some new tools are misused by some to transport viruses that can again render the network unusable. There are some cases where blocking things is actually done to ensure network reliablility for all users.
• 
  mrs durff on 2008-10-13
  I don't see it either.
• 
  Gina Minks on 2008-10-06
  Where is the picture?
• 
  Gina Minks on 2008-10-06
  so --- if you have to deliver the same training over and over again, how do you do this and make sure the key points are delivered if you don't have managed learning?
• 
  Francis Zhang on 2009-10-09
  So true, especially if you are in a third world country and you want to read some of the articles on the journal or get a textbook to learn something. So many things are taken for granted by the ingroup people.
• 
  Francis Zhang on 2009-10-09
  with those, you can "legally" deny a student's desire to learn.

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