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How the E-Book Will Change the Way We Read and Write - WSJ.com - The Diigo Meta page

online.wsj.com/...SB123980920727621353.html - Cached - Annotated View

Public Stiky Notes

  • tfmorton
    twyla morton on 2009-07-23
    This is amazing.
  • beahgo
    beth gourley on 2009-04-25
    I am curious about the process used here for comments and reading? For example did Will first read the article and then go back and make comments since he knew they would be public? And now that this article is marked up, how did readers read it? did the reader read through the article first ? and then go back and read the comments? or did the reader read comments progressively through the article? Did the comments encourage the reader to scan the article via the comments? Whatever method it makes for a different reading experience as explained in the article. And then how does one go about teaching it?
    Fortunately for now the comments have some substance – but how does one filter, sift the comments when they become inane?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Some potetntially profound changes right here. But just as I am using Diigo to mark this up for myself and others, I am most interested in the social aspects of reading. I hadn't thought much about the Diigo connection to that until I read this article.
  • dogtrax
    Kevin Hodgson on 2009-04-23
    I wonder about this question -- does form matter .. and I am not sure I have the answer (phew, right?) but it is intriguing to be at a point in time where we can even ask that question with some certainty that the book MAY change form as we know it. Or, you know, maybe not. That unknown is what makes it very interesting.
    Kevin
  • karlfisch
    Karl Fisch on 2009-04-22
    I think form does matter, in the sense that a particular form lends itself to a particular way of using it - or discourages you from using it in a different way.

    But is it a problem when one form transforms into another, possibly giving us new capabilities? I think we want to be careful about not losing some of what is so great about the book (late 20th century definition of "book"), but that doesn't mean the book as we know it is the ultimate expression of the form.

    So many of the ideas we hold about books currently are an accident of technology - the technology that existed at the time that books became mainstream. Just as many folks argued that the written word would be the downfall of the oral traditions and would isolate people, locked away with their "books" instead of gathering together, people will now argue in defense of books (again, late 20th century definition of the form).
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Does form matter?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Echoes of Dov Siedman's "How"
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Really interesting way of putting this, that analog can't compete with hypertext. I wonder how many traditional teachers would argue with that?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    And perhaps another tipping point in the public's understanding and perception of the "tectonic shift" that's occuring.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Sounds like Shirky.
  • awyatt
    A. T. Wyatt on 2009-05-07
    It has to be easy and it has to be available all the time. Ubiquitous computing, IMHO, is a major part of it for the end user. “The most profound technologies are those that disappear. They weave themselves into the fabric of everyday life until they are indistinguishable from it” (p. 94).
    Source: Mark Weiser as cited in Teaching and Learning in a Ubiquitous Environment by Annette Kratcoski, Karen Swan, and Deborah Campbell.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    The question I keep coming back to is how do we make this simply a part of our practice and not some "Wow!" process? These concepts and others (when you add the work of the social group around information collection, selection and dissemination) are going to be profound shifts in the process.
  • nealaclark
    neal clark on 2009-07-22
    The bookstore is following you, sure, but what about the library? will it become something totally different? A commmunication computer house?
  • misterfischer
    Elon Fischer on 2009-04-24
    I'm a public school English teacher. If kids could have easy, annotate-able access to every book that's currently available on-line, this would bring about huge change. All schools are (currently) limited by what's in the bookroom. Sure, reading on Kindle is not as easy as reading a traditional book for many kids--but that's changing. Link a kindle-esque device to Diigo so the kids can read and annotate together and (via this device) allow teachers to quickly get the right books in the right kids' hands (rather than having to stick to what's in the bookroom) and exciting things will happen. The device price must come down and there needs to be a way to get more recent books on line for cheap...but this opens up some very cool possibilities.
  • karlfisch
    Karl Fisch on 2009-04-22
    You're right, Will, some folks will hate the idea of losing the comfort, serendipity, and community gathering place that the word "bookstore" brings to mind (assuming that's the way you meant it). But couldn't you also view that line the other way around? That all that's best about the bookstore could possibly travel with you - with all of us - everywhere we go? I guess that's the hope - and perhaps the promise - of all of this.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Some are really going to hate reading that line...
  • plugusin
    William Ferriter on 2009-08-15
    What I always wonder is why we consider the "point-and-click" nature of internet reading as "unfocused." I know that when reading online, I often spend more time working my way into a topic by clicking on embedded links and exploring the related resources that are automatically generated by most sites. Is it possible that online reading can actually provide deeper opportunities for exploring than traditional texts?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Knew that was coming. I'm wondering if this shift in attention is better or worse or simply different. Can the brain (or will the brain) process information differently, in spurts and snippets, in ways that can be similar in "value" to they ways we now consider continuous attention?
  • novabeach
    Nick Liacopoulos on 2009-04-27
    I thought that E-books might engage tech-loving adolescents in active reading, but with the inherent distractions as described in this article, particularly the ability (present or future?) to simply leave the text and wonder off somewhere on the Web, I doubt that schools would make a push for inclusion of these devices in certain reading classes. That's a shame, because being able to control the text size, as well as being able to highlight and comment on certain passages, would help build critical thinking in students' literacy.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    And here I wonder what the pedagogical and curricular implications are of these shifts to linked reading environments. When I think of the process (ineffective as it may be) that I use to capture and store and link information (as in taking these notes right now) and how different it is or, really how absent that is from classroom teaching, it's scary on some level.
  • jennyluca
    Jenny Luca on 2009-06-18
    But surely that happens now with Web Pages. We don't shut off the internet to our kids (maybe some schools do by way of filtering!) so why we would shut off their ability to move between texts with a reader. I'm a Teacher-Librarian and my grapple is with how are we going to facilitate these devices in schools. e
  • lrosenberger
    Lori Rosenberger on 2009-07-23
    Strangely, this reminds me of an episode of Star Trek where Jon-Luc Picard is reading a real old-fashioned book and one of the crew comments about it. His response is how much he enjoys holding the book and turning the pages. For me, it just wouldn't be the same sitting in front of a fire and reading a Kindle.
  • amora630
    Sandylee Singletary on 2009-04-23
    So, as teachers, we can teach students that the way they read and the activities they engage in while reading, are determined by their purpose for reading. When the desired outcome is a deep immersion in an author's world, maybe we do not turn on the diigolet--in the same way that when we get online to accomplish a task, we avoid interruptions by leaving the chat program off.
  • mr_steve
    Steve Sarmento on 2009-04-22
    I think the key here is "may". The two "styles" of reading are not mutually exclusive.

    For some of my favorite movies I sometimes watch in the standard presentation, other times with a commentary track from the writer or director. After listening to the commentary I sometimes go back and watch a scene again to see it with new eyes.

    The television show LOST is a great example of this new type of reading. Some people watch the episodes and enjoy the show - and that's all. There is also a community of viewers that engage in ongoing debate, discussion, and dialogue about each episode and the unfolding story. I see the same happening for books.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    And, so? Again, I'm not convinced this is a bad thing, just different. Look at how reading has evolved over the ages. Is this just another step, albeit huge one, in that evolution.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Yes. Imagine doing this to books.
  • clairehertz
    Claire Hertz on 2009-04-24
    When I watch my high school and college aged children connect on the web - I can see I am only limited by my imagination. Sharing posts with others on the same page of the item we are discussing is one of my favorites. I smile everytime I get to a page with highlights and sticky notes from fellow Diigo users.

    After reading this article, I'm putting on Kindle on my mother's day wish list - maybe one of my kids will show my husband my post - do you think they can take a hint???
  • persei
    Mary Ann Harlan on 2009-04-23
    I read the article before the markup and am not going to add due to time - isn't that always the case - but Will I wanted to make the point that I usually try and join you when you are using Diigo and I usually discover that via Twitter - the two tools work well - discovery on Twitter, conversation on Diigo.
  • talber
    Travis Alber on 2009-04-23
    Yeah. I also wish the comments weren't so separated from the content...they all talk about different aspects of the article.
  • shanestevens
    Shane Stevens on 2009-04-23
    One can certainly see the educational usage of Diigo. However, I fear that many may need to overcome the dreaded filter. In my district, for example, the login portion of the site is blocked, which makes both the browser plugin and web services useless when it comes to this type of dialogue.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    I'm just struck at this moment how badly I want to be able to engage in a conversation with others about these ideas. The idea that I'm using Diigo to add these meta thoughts creates an expectation of response that is pretty strong. I want a disucssion to happen here, on the page. I'm thinking that I'd almost like to be able to save these threads and the contextual highlights as a blog post, but it would be too disjointed. Guessing I will have to Tweet out this undertaking to see if others might join in.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    I find this to be a compelling vision. Others, not so much I'm sure.
  • kmherman
    Kim Herman on 2009-07-22
    True - perhaps we should say "no one will HAVE to read along anymore." We can choose to read comments and respond to them, or just immerse ourselves in the original text!
  • msteven2
    Michael Stevenson on 2009-04-23
    I think the emphasis here should be on "can be" rather than "is" or "will be." Essentially I feel that with tools like diigo, the reader has the option of making the reading experience as private or as public as he/she sees fit.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Again, this can certainly be cool or chaotic. But I love the way Diigo allows you to do this in small groups. Wouldn't it be cool if we had a diverse "must read article" group where once a week we just came in a picked apart an article from many sides?
  • msteven2
    Michael Stevenson on 2009-04-23
    One question I have here is: how much will people defer to Google? Are we becoming a society that has to be fed page-ranking data before we make a choice on anything? What will this do to authors on the fringe or those who drift out of popularity?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    And then connect those ideas to every blog post, Tweet, etc. Navigating all that meta data will be a hugely different reading skill. Is THAT a new literacy?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Love that thought, and the implications that it holds for public writing.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    This idea kind of tweaks me, I'll admit. That shift in the motivation for writing, for the audience of Google, draws some interesting parallels to writing for the teacher and not oneself or one's audience. As I write these notes, for instance, I am primarily writing for myself, but I am also concious of the potential audience that might read them when I blog about it and tweet it out. This is not for Google, at least not yet.
  • nealaclark
    neal clark on 2009-07-22
    Just like you have the power to read other's comments with Diigo and turn it off, I would hope that books or e-books can be read with the choice of all the hyperlinks and other added electornic extras or for the pure idea of reading pleasure
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Tagging on the sentence level. Now that is cool, I think, and I've asked Diigo to allow tagging on the comment or the highlight level in that way.
  • karlfisch
    Karl Fisch on 2009-04-22
    I don't know about that. If the content is at least decent and it's optimized for search, will that be more "succesful" than content that's outstanding but can't be found? Isn't this just another way to reach an audience, and haven't writers/composers/artists/politicians always done that? And, the money question for educators, shouldn't we be helping our students learn to write in this medium?
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Yuk. And I don't think it would work, necessarily, as readers would be less apt to promote that prose, right?
  • karlfisch
    Karl Fisch on 2009-04-22
    It sounds like the issue he's really talking about is how do you cite, because I think how you link is pretty straightfoward - I think you link to the text (or image or . . .). The other piece of that, of course, is how do you pull it altogether. Using comments via Diigo as an example, how do you ensure those comments come through and are displayed correctly if you are reading this on a desktop computer, on a netbook, on an iPhone, on a Kindle, etc. (notably absent, of course, is print).
  • nandrews
    Nan Andrews on 2009-04-23
    I envision placing 10 Kindles that are loaded with appropriate magazines and newspapers on our HS periodical shelves. They won't circulate out of the school library. I'm just waiting for color and flexibility (Plastic Logic device, 2010 release)!
  • shanestevens
    Shane Stevens on 2009-04-23
    A subscription that came with a Kindle would be a very interesting option. I wonder how that would drive advancements in the technology? Would it also "force" more publishers to go digital? Interesting indeed.
  • karlfisch
    Karl Fisch on 2009-04-22
    Yep. For example, this article that posits the New York Times should simply ditch paper and give away Kindles to all its subscribers - http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/printing-the-nyt-costs-twice-as-much-as-sending-every-subscriber-a-free-kindle

    Not sure if the math works out or not, but I bet it's a model that somebody is going to try very soon. Perhaps Amazon themselves? Hmmm . . .
  • jbeeler
    jim Beeler on 2009-07-22
    ... and, Charles Dickens, among others, did this years ago.
  • willrich
    Will Richardson on 2009-04-22
    Isn't O'Reilly already doing this?
  • karlfisch
    Karl Fisch on 2009-04-22
    I don't disagree that there's much to be gained by deep-focus, sustained reading (and writing for that matter). We definitely need to keep this. But, again, there's another side. Perhaps the playlist he describes will "never workr the way a playlist of songs" does, but can it work in an entirely new way? Different than a playlist of songs, but also different than a 400 page book?

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