October 18, 1998, ABC News, "The Tragedy Of Jonestown", with Barbara Walters,

October 18, 1998, ABC News, "The Tragedy Of Jonestown", with Barbara Walters,

 

[aka Jim Jones' Sons Revisit Site of Mass Suicide]

BARBARA WALTERS, ABCNEWS Good evening, and welcome to 20/20 Sunday. Tonight, one of the most gripping hours that we have ever brought you. It’s a mystery story, a horror story, a story of survival. We’re going to take you back 20 years to the mass murder/suicide in Jonestown, Guyana.

DIANE SAWYER, ABCNEWS Most of us remember those incomprehensible scenes of carnage, the pictures of 900 people dead after drinking a poisoned grape drink. But what you might not remember is that Jim Jones, the leader of the cult, had sons who survived and who are now ready to speak out.

BARBARA WALTERS These two sons have a unique perspective on what happened. They have not been back to Jonestown since the tragedy. But tonight, they return with Forrest Sawyer. And so will we-to try to understand why so many people died.

STEPHAN JONES, SON We were as diverse a group of people as you’ll ever encounter. We were black. We were white. We were yellow. We were old. We were young. We were loving, passionate people. And those people shouldn’t have died.

REPORTER Members of the cult took part in one of the biggest mass suicides in recorded history. Late this afternoon, the government of ...

FORREST SAWYER, ABCNEWS (VO) On November 18, 1978, in the jungles of South America, in a tiny community called Jonestown, over 900 Americans died.

GRACE STOEN, FORMER MEMBER, PEOPLE’S TEMPLE I lost my son. His name was John.

WOMAN Our daughter, Ann Elizabeth.

MAN My seven kids, my wife and my sister.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Their bodies scattered around an open-air pavilion created a surreal vision. Almost all of the people had been poisoned. Nearly a third were children. This event still stands as the largest mass suicide in modern history.

GRACE STOEN You know, a lot of people say, “Oh, all those people were crazy,” or “I could never be in a situation like that.” I just want to say that I survived it, and it can happen, and it has happened since, and it probably will happen in the future.

JIM JONES, SR. You’re going to lift up that phone, and you’re not going to call Jesus Christ. You’re going to call Jim Jones.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jonestown showed the world the devastating power a single hypnotic leader can have over his people. That leader was the Reverend Jim Jones.

JIM JONES, SR. I want you to enjoy the fearlessness that I have, the courage that I have, the compassion that I have, the love that I have.

STEPHAN JONES He was amazing. He commanded a room unlike anything I’ve ever seen.

JIM JONES, SR. Move forward. Move forward. Move forward. Move forward.

STEPHAN JONES My father was a fraud. I could see that because I got to get-go backstage. I got to be behind the scenes.

JIM JONES, SR. Walk briskly.

STEPHAN JONES Toward the end, I think, the darkness took him as he was consumed by his sickness.

JIM JONES, SR. Not one of my children’s going to end up in a concentration camp. I said they’ll have to kill us all first.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Out of all the horror, two of the people closest to Jim Jones survived. His birth son, Stephan, and Stephan’s brother, adopted when he was only 10 weeks old and given the name Jim Jones, Jr. (on camera) Your father, in most people’s minds, was a bad guy.

JIM JONES, JR., SON And he was. His end result was very negative. Very-it was horrific.

FORREST SAWYER But?

JIM JONES, JR. Well, I think the “but” is what he tried to accomplish beforehand.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) For 20 years, each in his own way, the two brothers have wrestled with their father’s demons. This is their story and the story of how their living God built an entire world around them and destroyed it all.

GRACE STOEN We were sleep-deprived. We were food-deprived. It was craziness.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The disaster began with a series of complaints to California congressman Leo Ryan by defectors from Jim Jones’s church, like Grace and Tim Stoen.

TIM STOEN, FORMER MEMBER, PEOPLE’S TEMPLE I said the situation in Jonestown is tragically serious.

GRACE STOEN We were trying to let the government know that people were being held against their will.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) They claimed Jones was torturing and sexually abusing his followers.

JACKIE SPEIER, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL AIDE And just listening to the stories just sent chills up and down my spine.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) By November of ’78, Congressman Ryan decided to see Jonestown himself. Congressional aide Jackie Speier traveled with him to Guyana.

JACKIE SPEIER He knew that I had fears and concerns about the trip. I thought we were moving too quickly. I thought we didn’t know enough.

LEO RYAN, FORMER CONGRESSMAN How are you, Corporal? We’re very glad to meet you. I’m from the United States government, and we're here to ...

FORREST SAWYER (VO) With Ryan were defectors who still had family in Jonestown and a small group of reporters, including an NBC News television crew. Steve Sung was the soundman.

STEVE SUNG, FORMER NBC NEWS SOUNDMAN Don Harris, the correspondent, told us that these guys might have guns, but we don't know for sure. We thought we were street smart enough. If something happened, we'd try to avoid the confrontations.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) By the time Ryan's group made it to Jonestown, night had fallen. Defector Jim Cobb immediately began looking for his family.

JIM COBB, FORMER MEMBER, PEOPLE’S TEMPLE There’s no way to express how I felt when I first saw my brother, my two sisters. My youngest brother and youngest sister just immediately embraced.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) A special welcome had been staged for Congressman Ryan. He seemed to wonder if the horrible stories he’d been told might be false.

LEO RYAN Whatever the comments are, there are some people here who believe this is the best thing that ever happened to them in their whole life. (Applause)

TIM REITERMAN, FORMER SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER REPORTER The counterpoint, however, was Jim Jones himself.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Reporter Tim Reiterman.

TIM REITERMAN I think we saw a Jim Jones who was under siege.

STEVE SUNG His mind wasn’t there, somehow, you know? Something’s bothering him. We don’t know what, you know?

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Over an eight-man band, a sign read, “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Not far away, messages were being handed to NBC correspondent Don Harris.

JACKIE SPEIER He got slipped, on torn sheets of paper, notes from a couple of people that said, “I want to leave.”

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The next morning, Leo Ryan’s group saw and videotaped Jonestown in daylight for the first time.

JACKIE SPEIER You couldn’t help but be impressed by all of the farming that was going on, all the cabins that had been built, the medical clinic that had been built. I mean, they had really developed a community there.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) But when the reporters toured the grounds, they found troubling signs.

TIM REITERMAN Senior citizens were living in very crowded conditions in triple-level bunks. As the tour went on, even more serious things began to arise as the first defectors openly stepped forward.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) One of those wanting to defect was Jerry Parks, together with his entire family. Jackie Speier took their affidavits.

JACKIE SPEIER You say thatyou both want to leave Jonestown on this date, November 18 ...

JERRY PARKS, FORMER MEMBER, PEOPLE’S TEMPLE Jim Jones was standing right there. And I looked at him, and he looked at me, and he walked over to me, and he says, “Don’t do this. Don’t leave me like this.” He said, “I’ll give you $5,000 and your passports if you’ll stay.”

TIM REITERMAN You could tell by their facial expressions that Jones was failing. And this was a profound blow to him, because this is a family that had been by his side for decades.

JERRY PARKS And he goes over, finally, and sits down. It’s the first time in all the years that I knew Jim Jones that I saw him a beaten, dejected man.

DON HARRIS, NBC NEWS REPORTER Last night, someone came and passed me this note.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Now it was time for Don Harris to confront Jones.

JIM JONES, SR. People play games, friend. They lie. They lie. What can I do about lies? Will you people leave us? I just beg you please leave us.

JACKIE SPEIER The atmosphere in that pavilion changed to one that was just emotionally charged. There were literally couples with their children, one pulling one direction and another pulling in the other direction.

FEMALE MEMBER OF PEOPLE’S TEMPLE You bring them back here! Don’t you touch my kids! Mother!

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim Cobb had desperately hoped he could persuade his family to go back with him.

JIM COBB’S SON I like it here. I wouldn’t want to go back for nothing in the world.

DON HARRIS Are you satisfied, Jim?

JIM COBB Well, they say they’re happy. And I respect that. I want them to do what they want to do. Am I satisfied? No.

JERRY PARKS They were standing on their porches hollering at us, calling us traitors, all kind of names. And so, we went to our cabins real quick, got what we could get and went back to the truck, boarded the truck ...

JACKIE SPEIER Then, all of a sudden, we heard a loud sound coming out of the pavilion and the truck stopped, and then next thing we heard was that Congressman Ryan had been stabbed.

TIM REITERMAN One of the church members had grabbed Ryan around the neck and put a knife to him.

JACKIE SPEIER He was basically OK. I think just superficial cuts. But there was a sense of, “My God, we just got out of there with our lives.” Little did we know that the worst was yet to come.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Ryan’s group rushed to the nearby airstrip, anxious to get on the plane and far away from Jonestown.

JERRY PARKS By this time, we looked and see this red wagon and tractor coming.

TIM REITERMAN A number of the defectors and reporters were immediately put on alarm.

JIM COBB So I’m trying to hurry, get on the plane and leave.

TIM REITERMAN As we were boarding, this gunfire just erupted everywhere.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Just seven seconds after the first shot, cameraman Bob Brown, with his camera still rolling, went down.

STEVE SUNG He sat up and grabbed his thigh. Then they blew his head away. Then I know, “God, next thing, it’s my turn for sure.” Sure enough, less than a second later, I heard a big explosion. One penetrates through my arm. One goes through my shoulder.

JACKIE SPEIER Congressman Ryan had started to run under the-the plane, and then I started running under the plane.

TIM REITERMAN As I dove, Iwas hit in my arm and my wrist.

JACKIE SPEIER They came among us and shot us at point blank range, and then they left.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jackie Speier had been shot four times and lay only a few yards from Congressman Ryan.

JACKIE SPEIER You could see bodies kind of lying all over. And when no one’s moving, you know-I-I asked someone, “Is he-is he alive?”

And they said, “No.”

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Murdered along with Ryan were San Francisco Examiner photographer Greg Robinson, NBC reporter Don Harris, his cameraman Bob Brown and Jerry Parks’ wife, Patricia. She had been most afraid to leave. One hundred fifty miles away, as the murders took place, 19-year-old Stephan Jones and his 18-year-old brother Jim Jones, Jr. were visiting Guyana’s capital, Georgetown. Stunned by news of the disaster, they begged the US embassy for details.

STEPHAN JONES “There’s been a shooting at the airstrip, and people are dead,” I think was the response we got. As much as I could know anything, I knew things were dark and crazy and-and going bad fast.

DIANE SAWYER Soon, the worst. An event so searing, it would leave the world asking in horror-why?

ANNOUNCER When we come back-the long, strange path to tragedy. Jim Jones promised them paradise and condemned them to an unimaginable hell. Why didn’t anyone stop him before his paranoia turned to madness? The tragedy of Jonestown, in a moment.

(Commercial Break)

DIANE SAWYER We know that there were those who survived the murder/suicide pact in Jonestown. Three men refused to take the poison and escaped into the jungle. An elderly woman slept right through it all. And a little girl lived even after her throat was slit. There is also evidence that others tried to resist. But the vast majority simply followed Jim Jones’s orders. How did one deranged man gain so much control over so many? Forrest Sawyer takes us back to the earliest days of the People’s Temple.

JIM JONES, SR. Some people see a great deal of God in my body ...

JIM JONES, JR. I think Stephan saw all things that was negative about my father and promoted them. I saw all the things that were positive about my father and promoted them.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) And who was right?

JIM JONES, JR. I think both of us are right.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) They are brothers and polar opposites. One, a birth son. The other, adopted and given his father’s name.

JIM JONES, JR. I was the one that was loyal to the end. I mean, when you’re adopted and you’re told-you’re picked, it kind of sets the stage.

STEPHAN JONES I resented anyone that took attention away from me, especially from my father. I did crave that. I always craved that.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim Jr.’s adoption was a signal of his father’s commitment to integration. In 1956, Jones founded his church, the People’s Temple, in Indianapolis. Over half the congregation was African American.

JIM JONES, SR. Love is a healing remedy.

STEPHAN JONES You saw every color of the rainbow. And they seated people black, white, black, white. And there was a sense of belonging that was created in that-in that room.

JIM JONES, JR. He gave them something that wasn’t there. He gave them a belief in themselves. He gave them a belief in an organization that was doing things for their fellow man.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim Cobb and his family joined when he was just 7 years old.

JIM COBB I saw a soup kitchen. I saw people coming there who were hungry, looking around, you know, wow, they’re feeding people that were actually hungry.

JIM JONES, SR. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) But Stephan Jones saw another side of his father-angry, sadistic, even willing to take his 10-year-old son along to visit one of his many mistresses.

STEPHAN JONES They set me up on the sofa outside of her room and retired to her room. And it wasn’t long before they were making love.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Afterwards, Reverend Jones told his wife, Marcelline, about the rendezvous in detail.

STEPHAN JONES He was not only, in my eyes at that moment, a flawed human being, but-but a cruel one.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim, Jr. was aware of his father’s infidelity but ignored it. He trusted Jones completely, for good reason. Jones had convinced his son he had once literally brought the boy back from the dead.

JIM JONES, JR. I had no reason to doubt it. He was a faith healer.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) He not only adopted you and rescued you from this ...

JIM JONES, JR. He brought me back to life. So, I mean, you talk about owing the company store.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) By 1965, public criticism of Jones’s fake healings drove him to move the People’s Temple from Indiana to northern California. Over the next decade, his popularity there grew, catching the attention of powerful politicians-San Francisco mayor George Moscone, Governor Jerry Brown, even First Lady Rosalyn Carter. And Jones was attracting bright young idealists, like county assistant district attorney Tim Stoen.

TIM STOEN You had a lot of high-powered activists that were coming from all over, and it was just a lot of “we shall overcome.” We will create a Utopian community.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) But by the mid ’70s, Jones was facing more criticism. This time, the people of California were starting to hear of Jim Jones’s secrets.

JIM JONES, SR. All of these allegations are totally untrue.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) San Francisco Examiner reporter Tim Reiterman covered the growing scandal.

TIM REITERMAN We were hearing from ex-members that Jones was an incredibly manipulative person, somebody who would strip his followers of custody of their children, who would have them physically abused and sexually abused some of his members.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Once again, Jones told his loyal followers it was time to escape the public pressure. This time, he would leave what he called “the fascist United States” and go deep into the jungle of a remote South American country-Guyana.

MIKE TOUCHETTE, FORMER MEMBER, PEOPLE’S TEMPLE We were in the-in the process of building a new world, building a better society.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Mike Touchette and his family had been with Jones from the beginning. Touchette was sent to help lay the foundation for the new world. (on camera) And what was this world supposed to be?

MIKE TOUCHETTE No more pain. Not wanting for clothes, money to go out to buy things. It would be provided for you.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Also sent to Guyana-a troubled 17-year-old who was abusing drugs, had even tried to commit suicide and was thrilled to be away from his father’s control.

STEPHAN JONES Yeah, I had thousands of miles between me and Jim Jones, you know? Beyond that, I took to the jungle. You know, I did. I loved the jungle. I felt my soul, probably for the first time.

JIM JONES, SR. We’re now coming in over the beautiful promised land.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) In the summer of 1977, the exodus began. Traveling along with hundreds of followers were Jim, Jr. and his high school sweetheart, Yvette Muldrow (ph).

JIM JONES, JR. It was kind of the bus ride for freedom. That was the theme of it-the move for freedom.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) But Jim Cobb was horrified by the move. He had criticized the Temple’s predominantly white leadership and defected. His family remained believers, and now they left him behind.

JIM COBB I talked with my mother, and she talked about the racism in the United States, and it was better to start something out here in the jungle than be put with all of the inequalities within the society.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Many others, like Jerry Parks, were drawn by Jones’s film of what he called “the promised land.”

JERRY PARKS They showed flowers. They showed people dancing and having fun. And he told us, “You’ll have your own home.”

JIM JONES, SR. You have a home. These lovely people are all happy.

1ST MALE PEOPLE’S TEMPLE MEMBER I’m really happy to be here in the promised land.

2ND MALE PEOPLE’S TEMPLE MEMBER Complete freedom here in the promised land.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) In fact, there was complete freedom in Jonestown until the day Jim Jones himself finally arrived.

JIM JONES, SR. I made plans for treason long ago, because I knew I couldn’t trust nothing.

MIKE TOUCHETTE It was like Hell had arrived. We no longer were sleeping. He would keep us up. He would get us up in the middle of the night over the loudspeakers preaching how the government wanted to do the People’s Temple in. It was constant fear.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) By the time Jerry Parks arrived, the promised land had turned into a brutal armed camp.

JERRY PARKS They had a gate up and armed guards standing at the gate. And when I saw that, that’s when my heart dropped.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) After Parks dared to say he wanted to leave, Jones forced him to prove his commitment to the cause. Like hundreds of others, he was beaten and humiliated in public. Jonesrecorded a session with Parks.

JERRY PARKS I’m also prepared to die after 44 years of not being able to contribute anything to this life.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Parks then had to demonstrate his loyalty to Jones by offering to sacrifice his 11-year-old daughter.

JERRY PARKS If it came to that, I would have to take her life.

STEPHAN JONES My father had a very large cruel streak, and he enjoyed that kind of thing.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) By this point, how did you see him? What was he to you?

STEPHAN JONES A monster.

JIM JONES, JR. I thought it was other people affecting him, other people causing it. They’re pulling on him. They need him.

FORREST SAWYER Were you able to go to your father and say, “Dad ... “?

JIM JONES, JR. I never did that to him. I never questioned him.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) By this point, Jones’s paranoia was sliding into madness, fueled by amphetamines, Percodan, reportedly even heroin. The boys’ mother, Marcelline, tried desperately to stop him.

STEPHAN JONES She said, you know, “We’ve got to take him. We’ve got to isolate him. We’ve got to get him off drugs.” But what I said to her, “You don’t tell God he’s got a drug problem.”

JIM JONES, SR. I got guns. I got dynamite. I got a hell of a lot to fight. I’ll fight!

STEPHAN JONES He was losing the charge. He was using up his source. He had isolated himself. He had the same people to put on a show for. And after a while, “This ain’t enough. I got to have more.”

BARBARA WALTERS So what did Jim Jones do, especially now that word was beginning to reach the outside world that some people were being held against their will? Forrest Sawyer continues with our story in a moment.

(Commercial Break)

ANNOUNCER “The Tragedy Of Jonestown”-And now, Barbara Walters.

BARBARA WALTERS We continue now with our inside look at Jonestown, where more than 900 people died in the jungle. Sometimes the greatest tragedies begin with just an incident. As Forrest Sawyer tells us, in this case, it began with one small child.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The beginning of the end was a battle over a 5-year-old boy. When disillusioned church leaders Tim and Grace Stoen defected, to their horror, Jones refused to let their son, John, out of his control.

GRACE STOEN I realized that not only did I not have my son physically, that I didn’t have him mentally. He was being turned against me. He was being brainwashed.

TIM STOEN The central event of my life was John Victor Stoen. I was present when he was born. I diapered him. I sang to him. He was my whole life.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) But Jones claimed he was the boy’s real father and tried to point out a resemblance.

JIM JONES, SR. The dentist said (inaudible) the teeth profile. This is where it shows-open your mouth.

GRACE STOEN I just told him, I said, “You know, all I want-I want to see my son. He’s my son. I want to see him.”

FORREST SAWYER (VO) When the Stoens asked the Guyanese authorities for help in getting their son out of Jonestown, Jones told his exhausted, half-starved followers the enemy was coming to kill them.

JIM JONES, SR. Yes, we’ll fight. Let the night roll with it. They’re out there. They’re out there.

JIM JONES, JR. I remember seeing grandmothers up there with sticks, you know. “You’re not going to come into our-to our community.”

STEPHAN JONES It was a human wall. Facing out, ready for, you know, what may come.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Finally, Jones threatened mass suicide.

JIM JONES, SR. But our God-dammed land. We fought to build it. So we’ll fight to die for it!

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The authorities backed down. The boy stayed. And suicide drills Jones called “white nights” became a way of life.

STEPHAN JONES It would always start with him screaming “alert, alert, alert, alert, alert” over the loudspeaker. People went running in terror, and on top of that, surrounded by blackness.

JIM JONES, SR. Let the night roar, because they can hear us. They know we mean it.

JERRY PARKS Time was running out for Jim Jones. And so, each one of these white nights he knew that, and little by little by little, he was getting everybody ready for this big one.

JIM JONES, SR. Congressman Ryan, the wicked man.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) In 1978, Tim and Grace Stoen took their cause to the one man willing to listen-Congressman Leo Ryan. A panicked Jim Jones prepared for Ryan’s arrival.

JERRY PARKS He was having meetings every night. He would tell people what they were supposed to say if they did come in.

JIM JONES, SR. What would you say about the weather, if you were asked about the weather?

3RD MALE PEOPLE’S TEMPLE MEMBER Like it might be hot.

JIM JONES, SR. Not too hot. I wouldn’t talk about it being too hot.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Ironically, just as Congressman Ryan was on his way to Jonestown, Stephan and Jim, Jr. were allowed out of the community to play in a basketball tournament in the Guyanese city of Georgetown. (on camera) Were you aware of Congressman Ryan’s impending visit?

STEPHAN JONES That stuff was brewing. But I was also really caught up in the fact that we were in town playing basketball, free of the madness.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) It was on the afternoon of November 18 that Congressman Ryan and four others were shot and killed. In Georgetown, Jim, Jr. heard his father broadcasting a message over a short-wave radio.

JIM JONES, JR. I remember my father-hearing my father’s voice. “We have to make a stand. This is a white night event. They’ve taken people away from us who did not want to go. We have to do a white night.”

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The difference was, this white night was real.

JIM JONES, SR. They won’t leave us alone. They’re now going back to tell more lies, which means more congressmen. And there’s no way, no way we can survive.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Remarkably, Jones recorded his community’s final hour. In the early evening, everyone gathered at the main pavilion.To one side stood a large vat filled with grape flavor-aid and cyanide. Some resisted and were forced to take the poison by armed guards.

JIM JONES, SR. Take the potion like they used to take in ancient Greece and step over quietly.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The youngest were unable to resist.

MARCELLINE JONES I look at all the babies, and I think they deserve to live.

JIM JONES, SR. If these people land out here, they’ll torture some of our children here. They’ll torture our people. They’ll torture our seniors. We cannot have this.


JIM JONES, JR. I believe people thought there was a threat. And many certainly didn’t want their children to go back to the horror that was being described by my father.

JIM JONES, SR. Let’s just be done with it. Let’s be done with the agony of it. (Applause)

FORREST SAWYER (VO) There were paper cups for the adults and for the children, syringes. (Children crying)

JIM JONES, SR. But children, it’s just something to put you to rest. Oh, God.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) By some accounts, Stephan and Jim, Jr.’s mother, Marcelline, fought to save the babies, who were the first to die.

JIM JONES, SR. Mother, mother, mother, mother, mother, please. Mother, please, please, please. Don’t-don’t do this. Don’t do this.

STEPHAN JONES You know, after seeing the first baby die, what happens? You know, where do you go?

FORREST SAWYER (VO) After taking the poison, people staggered outside the main pavilion to die. Of the 913 dead, 276 were children. One of them, John Stoen. Jim Cobb lost his family. Marcelline Jones lay poisoned, not far from where Jim Jones was found shot in the head. An aide had left a note, saying, “We died because you would not let us live.”

JIM JONES, JR. I was stripped bare naked. I had nothing. Absolutely nothing.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Nothing except the guilty knowledge that he had survived, and the memory of the last time he spoke to Yvette, his wife of one month, who died carrying his unborn child.

JIM JONES, JR. She was just like, “I miss you. I love you. Good-bye. I miss you. I love you. Good-bye.”

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Stephan’s guilt is for all the people he discovered he loved only when it was too late.

STEPHAN JONES I don’t think that I knew it then, so consumed was I by my own anger and fear, but I loved those people. Some of the sweetest, most courageous people I’ve ever known lived in Jonestown. And I wish to God that I had a chance to do it again.

DIANE SAWYER How do you face the reality that your father killed everyone you loved and cared about? Well, two young men try to do just that, when we come back.

ANNOUNCER The sons return to their father’s killing fields.

STEPHAN JONES I need to try to find something, man. I’ve got to find some (bleep) trace of this place.

ANNOUNCER Time and the jungle swallow up the dreams of a madman, but one eerie relic remains. A final surprise, when “The Tragedy Of Jonestown” continues.

(Commercial Break)

DIANE SAWYER For the past 20 years, Jim Jones’s sons have built lives that would give no clue to what they witnessed. Jim, Jr. is a pharmaceutical salesman, married with three sons. Stephan runs an office furniture supply company and has a 4-year-old daughter. But inside, they still bear the mark of that tormenting memory. Recently, they told us they were ready to return to Jonestown for the first time in 20 years-a journey that would turn out to be surprising and far more painful than they thought.

FORMER PEOPLE’S TEMPLE MEMBER We will never repeat the mistakes of the past.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Every November for the past 19 years, Jonestown survivors have gathered at Oakland's Evergreen Cemetery, where over 400 People’s Temple members are buried.

GRACE STOEN Hi, Brian.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) This past year, Grace and Tim Stoen were there to honor their son.

GRACE STOEN I lost my son. His name was John.

TIM STOEN I would go through all the pain the Temple has caused me personally, as it has caused so many others, just to carry him in my arms for five seconds.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Through the years, the sons of Jim Jones have stayed away from the memorial services. Stephan has been haunted by the past.

STEPHAN JONES When I came back to the States, every night was a nightmare, you know. I had a lot

of private crying and screaming and yelling into pillows and ...

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim, Jr. has simply tried to forget.

JIM JONES, JR. You finally realize you’ve been zombie-ized. That’s a good word? I don’t know.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Well, you know, a zombie is the walking dead.

JIM JONES, JR. Well, maybe I was. Maybe I was that because I didn’t know what life was.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Now, two decades later, the two brothers have agreed to go back with ABCNEWS to revisit Jonestown for the first time since the mass suicide. Stephan decided to make the long journey with his best friend from Jonestown, Mike Touchette.

STEPHAN JONES I was 19 again, you know. I really was.

MIKE TOUCHETTE That’s Kaituma. That’s Kaituma there.

STEPHAN JONES I don’t know what it is about me and the bush, but it’s just-it pulls at me like nothing else.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) At the last minute, Jim found himself plagued with doubts about his trip to Jonestown.

JIM JONES, JR. I procrastinated and kind of set up obstacles so maybe I couldn’t go.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Were you afraid?

JIM JONES, JR. Yeah. I had to confront a lot of things that I had tried to neatly tuck it into certain little drawers in my mind.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Stephan and Mike landed at Port Kaituma on the same airstrip where Congressman Leo Ryan had been shot.

GUYANESE WOMAN Welcome to Kaituma.

STEPHAN JONES Thank you.

MIKE TOUCHETTE Thank you.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Then they took the slow, dusty drive to Jonestown.

STEPHAN JONES I’m looking for this big tree that I. I expected to come up over that rise and see Jonestown.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) And what you saw was ...

STEPHAN JONES Nothing.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Stephan could never have prepared for this moment. All that remained of the Jonestown he helped build was a palm tree that stood by the main pavilion where everyone died, a palm tree now 20 feet taller.

STEPHAN JONES I need to try to find something, man. I’ve got to find some (bleep) trace of this place. I got out there stomping around, trying to look for some sign of what we built. And you know, it’s all gone. I was blaming the brush for growing back. And when I eased off that, I realized that it’s just exactly how it ought to be. You know, just let it grow back.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Where was the pavilion?

MIKE TOUCHETTE Right there.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) In the place where Jim Jones sat and condemned 913 people to death is now the only splash of color in Jonestown. And nearby, the rusting organ keyboard, a reminder of the music that filled Temple gatherings.

STEPHAN JONES We had dances. People performed. That organ-this organ, man. These people were just incredibly passionate people. You know, I remember watching them walk down the path-almost every size, color, shape, every background. You know, that’s what the Temple was made up of.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Does coming here bring any closure at all? Let you put it to rest some?

STEPHAN JONES Yeah. It was about the people of Jonestown. It wasn’t about any structure we made, any land we cleared. It was about who came here. They’re not here any more. Give me a hug, man. Hell of a journey.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) That evening, Stephan left to spend the night alone in the jungle, surrounded by the sights and sounds he’d always loved.

JIM JONES, JR. Hey, Forrest. How are you doing?

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Hey, Jim, welcome to Port Kaituma. (VO) The next morning, Jim, who had overcome his doubts, arrived to begin his journey. (on camera) How’s it look?

JIM JONES, JR. Same. I was just thinking about the airstrip, you know?

FORREST SAWYER (VO) He had asked ABCNEWS to bring his family for support and to give his three sons a glimpse of their grandfather’s legacy. (on camera) What do you want to see first?

JIM JONES, JR. Let’s walk up by the pavilion.

FORREST SAWYER OK.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim’s reaction to Jonestown was as different from his brother’s as their lives have been.

JIM JONES, JR. I am kind of happy, because this is, you know, I’m showing my boys. What am I showing them? I don’t know. I’m showing them that this was Jonestown.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Jim knew just where he wanted to go and what he wanted to find.

JIM JONES, JR. I remember that vat in the pictures, the vat being at the back of the pavilion.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) To his right ...

JIM JONES, JR. Yeah.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) He searched for the vat that had held the cyanide-laced flavor-aid.

JIM JONES, JR. There it is!

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) That’s it.

JIM JONES, JR. That’s your vat.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) The vat used to kill almost everyone Jim had loved, including his mother and 19-year-old wife Yvette.

JIM JONES, JR. Sad, but true. That vat is the only thing that really makes this Jonestown.

FORREST SAWYER So this doesn't give you any closure?

JIM JONES, JR. Well, you know, I think closure-I have to find it, you know. I’m not going to find it by coming back here. I’m seeing that now. Here are the cottages. This is where I lived at. I lived in that one right there.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) Later that morning, as Jim showed his sons pictures of how Jonestown used to be, Stephan emerged from the jungle.

JIM JONES, JR. So you are out in the jungle again.

STEPHAN JONES How are you, man? It’s good to see you.

JIM JONES, JR. How you doing? How you been doing? How is it coming back?

STEPHAN JONES Necessary.

JIM JONES, JR. Yeah.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) For Stephan, coming to Jonestown freed him from some of his guilt and helped him, finally, begin to forgive his father.

STEPHAN JONES This is the end off of a bench that was in front of Dad’s house. I was trying to get a hold of my father and connect with my father my whole life.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Do you, in spite of everything, love your father?

STEPHAN JONES Yes. To not love my father would be to not love myself. I’m too much like him to-to hate him and hate what he did.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) It wasn’t until Jim returned to California that he, too, began to see another side of his father, a father he had loved too much.

JIM JONES, JR. You know, since I came back, I don’t think I’ve had a full night’s sleep, because of dreams, feelings, emotions that are just coming out. It’s Niagara Falls with these emotions. I was very angry.

FORREST SAWYER (on camera) Angry at ...

JIM JONES, JR. At my father. I think a piece of me might still be always angry with him. I mean, he took everything away I have.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) But the anger cannot be directed only at Jim Jones. Many survivors know that Jones may have led them to destruction, but they blindly followed. Jerry Parks has struggled with that knowledge for two decades.

JERRY PARKS I still have a certain amount of guilt taking my family over there and putting them through an awful traumatic experience like that, and then having to come back here and live their lives out-the rest of their lives with those memories.

FORREST SAWYER (VO) For Congressman Ryan’s aide, Jackie Speier, who is now running for California State Senate, the legacy of Jonestown is a simple one-we should remember and learn from the terrible loss.

JACKIE SPEIER No one should ever be so arrogant as to think it can’t happen to them. We’re all susceptible on one level or another. As the sign at the People’s Temple said, “If we don’t remember the past, we’re destined to repeat it in the future.”

BARBARA WALTERS Well, we thought we remembered and learned. And after Jonestown, after this tragedy, we hoped this would never happen again. But since then, 86 Branch Davidians died in Waco, 39 followers of the Heaven’s Gate cult committed mass suicide. It’s true that those numbers pale in comparison to the 913 dead in Jonestown. But, ironically, Diane, I mean, these were people who were looking for a better, more peaceful world.

DIANE SAWYER It’s what makes cult activity so pernicious-that you’re really preying on people’s best instincts, their desire for spirituality and for community. And I guess it leaves all of us just fearing, but knowing that some day it will probably happen again. And some number, more or less, always is confounding and sad. We’ll be right back.

(Commercial Break)

BARBARA WALTERS Now, here’s Peter Jennings with a look at what’s coming up tomorrow on World News Tonight.

PETER JENNINGS, ABCNEWS (on camera) On World News Tonight-our series “The Way They Live,” what Americans might learn about living a better life from an island in Greece, a village in Japan and a congregation of laughers in India. We hope you’ll join us.

DIANE SAWYER And Wednesday on 20/20-I’ll be back with Sam Donaldson and a story you have to see to believe. (VO) A radical, new therapy-a simple pair of taped goggles that seem to relieve anxiety and lift depression as effectively as drugs.

GOGGLE THERAPY PATIENT It was such an immediate difference. It was startling.

DIANE SAWYER (VO) Safe, cheap, and you can try it at home. Goggle therapy. (on camera) 20/20 Wednesday at 10:00, 9:00 Central.

BARBARA WALTERS That is amazing.

DIANE SAWYER We’ll wear them next week. We’ll see.

BARBARA WALTERS OK. And that is 20/20 for tonight. Thank you for being with us. I’m Barbara Walters.

http://www.abcnews.com/onair/2020/transcripts/2020_jonestownI_trans.html