Karl Fisch's Library tagged mc →  View Popular

It helps, yes, but I guess I need to see it to really get it. I'd like to know more about how she allowed the audience to participate without disrupting the flow. When I've done these things with large audiences, I've never been able to figure out how to actually have them meaningfully participate without disrupting the flow.

In timed situations such as these, I don't feel like I can just let that happen (which I do let happen when I have my own staff development stuff that isn't so time bound). So I end up reverting to talking at them, trying to make it informative, occasionally funny, thought provoking and maybe even a little bit inspiring, and then hoping they take it from there. But that's still talking at them.

Do you have a link to the video for this particular presentation?

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presentations mc

@bengrey sent a tweet a couple of weeks ago about six word stories. Nothing terribly organized or planned, but take a look at the results http://bengrey.wikispaces.com/6+Word+Story+Project

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mc six_word_stories wesley_fryer

I just posted this comment on Tom's site, so some of it refers to the particular verbiage in his post/comments, but I thought I'd add it here as well. Again, please keep in mind this is very much not from a legal perspective, but from a "what's best for kids" perspective.

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OK, I’m not a lawyer, nor particularly knowledgeable about copyright, so this is likely to be a naive comment, but bear with me as I look at this from a teacher’s perspective. I’m curious as to your (Tom and everyone who’s commented) take on “whether or not it is actually a good idea.” Because after reading through all the links, my guess is that it does currently fall under “work for hire,” yet I (and I would bet most teachers) have a visceral reaction to that statement – it just feels wrong (I’m still trying to analyze my own feelings of why it feels so wrong to me).

So, to me, I guess the more interesting question is (since copyright is an area that I believe is going to have to change to reflect shifting circumstances - relying on Lawrence Lessig’s work here) should teachers’ work belong to the employer? According to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_8:_Powers_of_Congress">U.S. Constitution</a>, the intent of copyright is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." So, my very non-legal and non-technical question/argument is, does conveying the rights to teachers’ work to their employer “promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts?” To keep this simple(r), I’m thinking of this in terms of public, K-12 education. To me, it seems like treating this work as the property of the employer actually impedes progress (again, not trying to make a legal argument, just trying to get my head around this). With schools (and school districts) increasingly being viewed as a competitive model, I think “hindering a school district’s commercial interest” could

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copyright mc

OK, I’m not a lawyer, nor particularly knowledgeable about copyright, so this is likely to be a naive comment, but bear with me as I look at this from a teacher’s perspective. I’m curious as to your (Tom and everyone who’s commented) take on “whether or not it is actually a good idea.” Because after reading through all the links, my guess is that it does currently fall under “work for hire,” yet I (and I would bet most teachers) have a visceral reaction to that statement – it just feels wrong (I’m still trying to analyze my own feelings of why it feels so wrong to me).

So, to me, I guess the more interesting question is (since copyright is an area that I believe is going to have to change to reflect shifting circumstances - relying on Lawrence Lessig’s work here) should teachers’ work belong to the employer? According to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_8:_Powers_of_Congress">U.S. Constitution</a>, the intent of copyright is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." So, my very non-legal and non-technical question/argument is, does conveying the rights to teachers’ work to their employer “promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts?” To keep this simple(r), I’m thinking of this in terms of public, K-12 education. To me, it seems like treating this work as the property of the employer actually impedes progress (again, not trying to make a legal argument, just trying to get my head around this). With schools (and school districts) increasingly being viewed as a competitive model, I think “hindering a school district’s commercial interest” could get pretty broadly applied, and – should “work for hire” hold up – teachers would be prevented from taking stuff they developed to another, competing school district (or charter school, or private school for that matter).

In other words, from my own naive and unrealistically i

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copyright mc

Just FYI - you came across that Phone Book video in the <a href="http://plpadvis.wikispaces.com/">ADVIS PLP Cohort</a>. Just a little plug for your "other" job.

I had some <a href="http://thefischbowl.blogspot.com/2009/12/shift-in-digital-divide.html">brief thoughts</a> on that NPR story. I ask that iPhone question ("what will the iPhone look like in X years and what does that mean for educators?") in pretty much every presentation I do. No matter the participants' thoughts on how important devices such as those are, it always starts a good and thoughtful conversation.

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will_richardson cell_phones education_change mc

For the record, I think it shows that something is not quite right with this process (not knowing what ISTE's next step is, I could change my mind on that). Too much name recognition, not enough thought about who would be most effective. The fact that I am currently ahead of Michael Wesch in that category is proof that we have a problem. (No, that is not false modesty. Who would be more successful addressing that topic to an ISTE audience?)

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mc

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mc

I wish I had something pithy to add to this, but I'm pretty much stuck on "well said" or perhaps "I agree completely."

This is pretty much what I've tried to say to the folks in my building. I try to be careful not to push them anywhere they don't want to go, but when they're ready to but are nervous about it, yours is the approach I take. If you're worried something you're doing is not okay for students (or others) to see, then perhaps you need to examine whether you should be doing it in the first place. But if you feel comfortable with what you're doing, then why would you be concerned with students (or others) seeing it? We should all try to be our best selves, whether that is online or off.

Modeling is definitely key, as well as the acknowledgment that we're all human and are occasionally going to make mistakes (both offline and online). As long as we're as honest as possible about that, then I think we're on the right track.

Like so many of the discussions we have around technology, I think there's an artificial separation between our online and offline lives. Just as I think we don't really need new policies to police student behavior online (because I think the same "offline" policies are just as applicable online), I'm not sure we need separate rules of engagement of our online personas. Yes, it's a different space. And, yes, our "digital footprint" is usually more permanent and accessible than an offline conversation. But that doesn't alter the fact that we shouldn't be changing our actions just because we might get "caught" or "noticed" in a digital space. I'll say it again, we should always try to be our best selves, online or off.

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mc bud_hunt digital_footprint

The article actually says "Children consistently did better writing with a pen when they wrote essays. They wrote more and they wrote faster." said Berninger. I would point out that "more and faster" do not necessarily mean "better."

Also, the article fails to mention whether these students had had any keyboarding instruction, or instruction on how to compose/write on a computer. If the research didn't address that, that seems to be a major oversight in the methodology. If these students didn't have keyboarding skills and were hunting and pecking, and if they had rarely (if ever) used computers to write and had never been instructed on how to use a computer to write, then they *should* do better with pen and paper which they presumably have had plenty of practice using in this manner.

I'm not sure this research - at least as much as we know from what was reported - really says much at all.

More lengthy thoughts at http://thefischbowl.blogspot.com/2009/10/is-pen-mightier-than-keyboard.html

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mc

No need to apologize - you wrote what you were thinking. (Indeed, being able to participating in constructive debate is part of being technologically literate!)

I understand what you're saying, and certainly there are many issues with funding, support, infrastructure, filters, etc. (just read my blog to see/hear me complain!). But, in the end, that doesn't matter in relation to the point I was trying to make. It's our job to meet the needs of our students. We have to find a way, even if there are obstacles in our path. That may sound overly idealistic, but I don't care, it's what we're hired to do.

Whether there are restrictions in Mobile or problems because it's a low-income school is more-or-less irrelevant in terms of the discussion on the blog post - those are challenges for us to overcome. In fact, I would argue that teachers in schools such as you describe have an even higher level of responsibility to be technologically literate - and to help their students become so - because those students are less likely to have those opportunities outside of school (the "digital divide" idea).

Today's second graders are the class of 2020 - don't you think we should be preparing them for the world they are going to inhabit?

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mc

Darren and Bud,

I have had similar conversations in my district around the idea of why do we think we have to have separate rules for technology. The basic values we ask teachers and students to adhere to apply just as well to technology issues as they do to everything else, why with technology do we suddenly think we have to have a laundry list of “shall nots?” Much like our earlier discussion about “acceptable use policies” versus “responsible use policies (http://thefischbowl.blogspot.com/2008/12/lets-get-rid-of-acceptable-use-policies.html),” I would like the focus to be on how students should be using these tools well, not on which ones should be banned or blocked.

Perhaps this is naive, but this is my basic position: students and teachers know when they are doing the right thing and when they are not. And when they don’t do the right thing, then we should have a conversation with them. But let’s don’t assume they are going to do the wrong thing and then try to “prevent” it somehow by filtering.

We trust our teachers to be physically in the classroom (and on the sports fields and in our activities) with our students day in and day out, pretty much without any kind of “supervision.” There is much more potential for abuse (in all meanings of that word) in that physical situation than with technology, so why do we continue to invest so much time, energy and money into filtering when we apparently don’t really care that much about what’s going on in the classroom (at least based on the resources we devote to observation/mentoring/professional development)?

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internet_filter bud_hunt mc

@Cathy Nelson - A quick comment about "lunchtime." They really can't win with that one, right? Even if we limit this to the continental U.S., you're talking about four time zones of lunch time, with lunches typically spread out over 2-plus hours in most schools.

First lunch at my school starts at 10:30 am and second lunch ends at about 12:05 pm. There are obviously schools with different lunch times in my time zone and, when you multiply that times four different time zones, there is basically no time they could schedule it that wouldn't be lunchtime for somebody.

@Deb - Excellent questions. As @jonbecker replied to one of my tweets talking about our opt-out policy, who determines what a "reasonable objection" is? Even more reason to embed AASL standards into our classrooms and walk through the process with our students, so they can help determine for themselves (with our scaffolding) how to analyze and interpret not only this speech, but all the different media they will come across in their lives.

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mc politics aasl

I meant to ask you how Back To School Night went - glad to hear it went well - that's a great comment by that Dad.

There's a lot to chew on here, so I may return after thinking about it more, but just a quick thought for now. Keep in mind that it's going to take them a while to figure out how to "go big." You're asking them to do something that they've probably never been asked to do in school before (and probably not outside of school either).

And here's the really hard thing - they may not get there by the end of the semester. One of the things I keep coming back to - not that it's a new thought for educators (or parents) - is that the results of our efforts won't really be seen for quite some time. And that as much as we want something tangible by the end of the semester (or the end of the year; or by graduation), that's not always going to happen.

I think you will definitely see some great results from some students by the end of the semester, and some hints of the impact you and the class have made on other students. But for some students, the true impact may not be felt for quite some time. To use terms I think you'll understand - it's a marathon, not a sprint.

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mc c2 21c jeff_krause language_arts assessment

@Marita - I agree that information literacy is huge, and some of his stats definitely need to be looked at. But a fair number of them are accurate, and the big picture of social media and how it relates to branding, marketing and running a business is an idea we need to look at more closely (and, of course, the related issue of its affect on education/schools/teaching/learning). I don't think we should dismiss the issues this raises just because he ran a little loose with some of the facts.

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thefischbowl youtube video social_media social_networking Did_You_Know Did_You_Know_2 mc

Nice, although I have to say that I don't see the value in teaching kids cursive.

My question for you, though, is how are reading, writing, speaking and listening different now than they were before, and what does that mean for your classroom - and, more importantly, for your students?

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mc language_arts c2

I agree as well that calculus should not be the automatic capstone course in high school. I think a much greater emphasis on probability and statistics throughout high school math would serve our students well, not just in their future majors/careers, but in order to be effective citizens. Dealing with data is critical in order to be an informed citizen.

I would suggest it is much, much lower than 20%, which means that we currently are doing a disservice to possibly 90% of our students.

Having said that, I worry about Darren's suggestion that kids can self-select between the two tracks. Inevitably, students will rely on us (as well as their parents and college admissions officers) to make that decision, and I worry about our historical tendency to "track" students based on race or demographics or perceived limitations.

I guess I wonder how necessary is it to have calculus in high school? (Truly wondering, not just rhetorical.) I think you could create a reasonably broad and very deep mathematics curriculum that shifts from the current pre-engineering/pre-math-professor curriculum we have now, and still have students ready for freshmen calculus if that's the direction they'd like to go. It would benefit all students without leaving those students (10%?) who will need calculus in the lurch. I know when I was in high school the college I chose said not to bother taking the AP Calc exam, as they didn't feel it matched the level of Calc they were teaching. That might be the exception, but I think it shows that even at fairly selective colleges (and this was one), you don't have to have calculus in high school in order to be successful in calculus-based careers.

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mc mathematics darren_kuropatwa

When I hear the question, I think it's the wrong question (albeit asked for the right reasons). Here's the comment I just left on Ben's post:

I'm late to this conversation, but I agree with Jen Wagner's comment about not liking the question (while very much liking the thinking going on around the question).

I would pose two different questions we need to address first.

1. Why learn?

I think a discussion around this might help with what you're trying to get at.

2. Why should your district continue?

I think leaving off the last five words of your question is much more interesting.

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mc

Create and Connect are good answers, but I think it's the wrong question. Here's the comment I just left on Ben's post:

I'm late to this conversation, but I agree with Jen Wagner's comment about not liking the question (while very much liking the thinking going on around the question).

I would pose two different questions we need to address first.

1. Why learn?

I think a discussion around this might help with what you're trying to get at.

2. Why should your district continue?

I think leaving off the last five words of your question is much more interesting.

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mc

I'm late to this conversation, but I agree with Jen Wagner's comment about not liking the question (while very much liking the thinking going on around the question).

I would pose two different questions we need to address first.

1. Why learn?

I think a discussion around this might help with what you're trying to get at.

2. Why should your district continue?

I think leaving off the last five words of your question is much more interesting.

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mc

Mr. Doctorow,

Thanks once again for giving of your valuable time and sharing your insights about Little Brother - and related issues - with our students. It was a wonderful learning experience for them and one they won't soon forget.

Just to clarify one thing, they were not trying to get it approved for the statewide curriculum, just making a presentation about why it should be approved for ninth grade and up in our district curriculum.

With your help - and with a lot of research and hard work on their own as well - they made a great presentation.

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mc