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Open Stack: ISO Does The Unthinkable. How ISO approval of MSOffice-OOXML will break the Web
In response to a recent question posted to a rather old OpenStack blog, i posted this summary of my views on ISO approval of MSOffice-OOXML and the impact it will have on the futrue of the open web.
Tags: odf, ooxml, xaml, xhtml, css, msoffice, interoperability, daVinci on 2008-04-22 -All Annotations (0) -About
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In August of 2007 we dropped ODF as the da Vinci target conversion format, and moved to the W3C's Compound Document Format (CDF) with an ePUB wrapper.
The reason for this move is that we could not establish a reasonable degree of interoperability with OpenOffice ODF unless Sun supported the five generic eXtensions to ODF needed to hit the high fidelity conversion the da Vinci process is capable of.
Since da Vinci is a clone of the MSOffice OOXML compatibility Kit, we use the same internal conversion process where imbr (in-memory-binary-representation) is converted to another format: imbr <> OOXML or, imbr <> RTF.
While it's entirely compliant to eXtend ODF, without Sun's changes to OpenOffice ODF the application-platform-vendor independent interoperability end users expect would be meaningless.
The problem as we see it is this; it is impossible to do a high fidelity conversion between two application specific XML formats.
It is however quite possible to do a conversion between an application specific format and a generic (application-platform-vendor independent) format.
Office generations 1.0 - 4.0| Hasta La Bye Bye Office 2.0 | Rough Type: Nicholas Carr's Blog:
Tags: carr, davinci, office, office20, web on 2007-12-18 and saved by6 people -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.roughtype.com
- post by garyedwards on 2007-12-18
In this 2006 article Nick Carr lays out the history of office productivity applications, arguing the Office 2.0 is really Office 3.0 - the generation where desktop productivity office suites mesh with the Web.
This article is linked to The Office question,
December 18, 2007
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The key is to extend both functionality and interoperability without taking away any of the capabilities that users currently rely on or expect. Reducing interoperability or functionality is a non-starter, for the end user as well as the IT departments that want to avoid annoying the end user. You screw with PowerPoint at your own risk.Add Sticky Note
- posted by garyedwards on 2007-12-18
Exactly! This is also the reason why ODF failed in Massachusetts! Reducing the interoperability or functionality of of any workgroup related business process is unacceptable. Which is why IBM's rip out and replace MSOffice approach as the means of transitioning to ODF is doomed.
The Office 2.0 (er 3.0) crowd is at a similar disadvantage. They offer web based productivity services that leverage the incredible value of web collaboration. The problem is that these collaboration services are not interoperable with MSOffice. This disconnection greatly reduces and totally neutralizes the collaboration value promise.
Microsoft of course will be able to deliver that same web based collaborative comp[uting value in an integrated package. They and they alone are able to integrate web collaboration services into existing MSOffice workgroups.
In many ways this should be an anti trust issue. If governments allow Microsoft to control the interop channels into MSOffice, then Microsoft web collaboration systems will be the only choice for 550 million MSOffice workgroup users. The interop layer is today an impossible barrier for Office 2.0, Web 2.0, SaaS and SOA competitors.
This is the reasoning behind our da Vinci CDF+ plug-in for MSOffice. Rather than continue banging the wall of IBM's transition to ODF through government legislated rip out and replace mandates, we think the way forward is to exploit the MSOffice plug-in architecture, using it to neutralize and re purpose existing MSOffice workgroups.
The key is getting MSOffice documents into a web ready format that is useful to non Microsoft web platform (cloud) alternatives. This requires a non disruptive transition. The workgroups will not tolerate any loss of interop or functionality. We believe this can be done using CDF+ (XHTML 2.0 + CSS).
Think of it as cutting off the transition of existing workgroup business p
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Microsoft sees this coming, and one of its biggest challenges in the years ahead will be figuring out how to replace the revenues and profits that get sucked out of the Office market.Add Sticky Note
- Bingo!posted by garyedwards on 2007-12-18
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The real problem that I see is the reduced functionality and integration. I don’t think there can be a Revolution until someone builds an entire suite of Revolutionary office products on the web. Office has had almost (or more than, don't quote me) 15 years of experience to build a tight cohesive relationship between it's products.Add Sticky Note
- posted by garyedwards on 2007-12-18
Rather than replace MSOffice, why not move the desktop bound business processes to the web? Re write them to take advantage of web collaboration, universal connectivity, and universal interop.
Once the business processes are up in the cloud, you can actually start introducing desktop alternatives to MSOffice. The trick is to write these alternative business processes to something other than .NET 3.0, MS-OOXML, and the Exchange/SharePoint Hub.
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Add Sticky Note
left standing in a few years will be limited to those who succeeded in getting their products adopted and imbedded into the customers 'workflow' (for lack of a better term) and who make money from it.
A silo'ed PPA is not embedded in a company's workflow (this describes 95% of the Office 2.0 companies) thus their failure is predetermined.
A Free PPA is not making money thus their failure is predetermined as well.
For those companies who adapt to a traditional service and support model and make it through the flurry.....would they really qualify as Office 4.0?
- Spot on! Excellent comments that go right to the heart of the matter. The Office 2.0 crowd is creating a new market category that Microsoft will easily be able to seize and exploit when the time is right. Like when it becomes profitable :)posted by garyedwards on 2007-12-18
EU-IDABC ODEF Workshop 2007 in Berlin - Documentation - presentations
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-10-01 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromec.europa.eu
- ODF officially died on February 28, 2007, at the Advanced eGovernment Conference in Berlin. Hellow ODEFpost by garyedwards on 2007-06-05
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IDABC ODEF Workshop 2007 in Berlin
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- compile further input from Member State public administrations on their experiences and strategies on ODEF
- gather industry viewpoints on the initiatives relating to ODEF standardization and information on future standardisation developments
- provide a platform for exchange between stakeholders in public administrations and main industry players
ODEF Strategies: Examples from European Administration
Practical Experiences with the implementation of ODEF
Report on ODEF-Standardisation activities
4 parallel sessions with participants
A panel discussion with stakeholders
As information exchange in and with public administrations is very often bound to documents, editing, archiving and exchange possibilities for documents are crucial for the optimum function of administrations, both in terms of practicality and cost.Initiatives such as the PEGSCO Recommendations on Open Document Formats published by the IDABC Management Committee, demonstrate public administrations preference for "open" document exchange and storage formats that are subject to formal standardisation via international standardisation procedures.The primary objectives of the Berlin event, held at the German Federal Ministry of the Interior (BMI), were to:
The program of the workshop included, among other:
Taking an incremental approach to SOA | Avoiding costly "rip out an dreplace"
Tags: cdf, convergence, davinci, interoperability, soa on 2007-09-28 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromnews.zdnet.com
- Excellent article from NetManage's Archie Roboostoff. He lays out all the difficulties and mistakes experienced with SOA efforts.post by garyedwards on 2007-09-28
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Current implementation issues
One of the biggest hurdles to implementing a realistic SOA is understanding what the business units and end users are doing today. This understanding is critical to the success of any SOA project since the new services must match exactly what each business unit is doing today. Neglecting these business processes and replacing them with individual services will most likely lead to hundreds of non-used services and frustrated business units.
Does ODF Have a Future?
Tags: acme, cdf, davinci, odef, odf, officeopenxml, ooxml, opendocument, xhtml on 2007-08-08 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromask.slashdot.org
The Microsoft Document Juggernaut: ECMA to Begin Drafting XPS as Alternative Standard to PDF
Tags: davinci, iso, massachusetts, microsoft, odf, officeopenxml, ooxml, opendocument, xml on 2007-07-02 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.betanews.com
- More on Andy UpDegrove's "Game Over for open standards" comment.post by garyedwards on 2007-06-30
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"Be that as it may," Updegrove continues, "perpetuating one monopolistic market position after another seems wholly incompatible with the role of a global standards body, tasked with protecting the interests of all stakeholders. If OOXML, and now Microsoft XML Paper Specification, each sail through ECMA and are then adopted by ISO/IEC JTC1, then it may be time to wonder whether the time has come to declare 'game over' for open standards."
Game Over! Latest Draft of Mass. ETRM Includes OOXML
Tags: davinci, iso, massachusetts, microsoft, odf, officeopenxml, ooxml, opendocument, xml on 2007-07-02 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.consortiuminfo.org
- Game Over? Probably. I've been expecting Massachusetts to publicly revise the ODF mandate to include OOXML ever since Louis Gutierrez resigned in early October of 2006. That was as clear a signal that ODF had failed in Massachusetts as anyone needed.post by garyedwards on 2007-07-02
The only surprise is that it took the new CIO, Beth Pepoli so long to make the announcement that OOXML would be recognized as an officially recognized open XML file format going forward.
Andy UpDegrove of course does his best to downplay the significance of this announcement. But how can this not be the deathnell for ODF?
The failure of ODF in Massachusetts has resulted in a world wide recognition that it is impossible to implement ODF.
This is exactly what happened to ODF mandate legislature in California. The CIO's in California uniformly rejected both ODF legislation and Sun's hapless effort to set up an ODF Pilot Study based on what had happened in Massachusetts. If Mass couldn't implement ODF, than they saw no reason for them to try.
And it does come down to "implementation".
Most people think the implementation of ODF is as easy as downloading OepnOffice and converting your legacy docuemnts to ODF as they are used. Simply fix the artifacts of conversion in process, and never look back. OOo is free. So what's not to like?
Well, the problem is that the world has fifteen plus years of building business processes, line of business integrated applications and other client/server integration on top of the MSOffice application suite. These business processes are bound hard to MSOffice.
So the barrier for OpenOffice and ODF is twofold. Any implementation of ODF must overcome both the binary documents conversion barrier, and, the MSOffice bound business process barrier.
The cost and disruption of a <font
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this new draft includes Microsoft's OOXML formats as an acceptable "open format."
GullFOSS: It's our way or the highway. So what if new cool features = Zero Interop? Download OOo and get over it already!
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-10 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromblogs.sun.com
- Make no mistake about it. Microsoft is absolutely right about three things:post by garyedwards on 2007-06-10
.... Compatibility with existing file formats is not an ODF concern.
.... Sun controls the OASIS ODF TC.
.... Sun makes certain that ODF is bound tightly to the OpenOffice feature set.
Sun's view of interoperability is that of a one way street. Documents can be converted into ODF-OOo/SO, but they are guaranteed to break during any kind of document routing or round tripping.
This is also the reason why the Sun "external" plugin for MSOffice fails. One way conversion simply isn't enough to crack the hold MSOffice has on critical day to day business processes. The only way to that is with a conversion process able to maintain high level fidelity while round tripping.
As the EU IDABC has figured out, the ODF-OOo/SO specification is loaded with interoperability break points. That's why they are turning to ODEF, which can be seen as a version of ODF that is truly application independent and optimized for interoperability.
~ge~ - The chuckleheads at Sun's StarOffice/OpenOffice Hamburg office respond to Florian's comprehensive lis tof suggestions to greatly improve ODF interoperability.post by garyedwards on 2007-06-05
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When such new features that enhance the interoperability require enhancements to the Open Document file format we will propose the necessary changes to the OASIS Open Document TC. This way not only OpenOffice.org but also Open Document benefits from our efforts. Florian Reuter, who now works for Novell, lists some of the changes we have in mind in his blog . So there are a lot of common ideas how we can improve the interoperability between OpenOffice.org and Microsoft Word documents and I hope we can work together with Florian here.
ODF1.2 Interoperability Proposal
Tags: california, compatibility, davinci, interoperability, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odf, officeopenxml, ooxml, opendocument, openxml, plugin, xml on 2007-06-09 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.oasis-open.org
- Part of the sad but enduring "History of Failed ODF Interoperability Attempts". This particular message is dated November 20th, 2006.post by garyedwards on 2007-06-04
The OpenDocument Foundation was notified a week earlier that the "benefactor" ODF Community group Louis Gutierrez had asked IBM and Oracle to put together in Massachusetts had failed. This was the group Louis formed around the da Vinci plugin and our InfoSet APi.
Florian has been hired by Novell, and his first day on the job he finds out about the IBM - Novell deal with Microsoft. Now he has write the MOOXML plugin for OpenOffice using the MS-CleverAge Translator Project work. So he writes this message to the ODF TC [office] list.
The interoperability enhancements Florian suggests are based on the <interoperability eXtensions> submitted in August to the ODF Metadata SC for consideration.
The first element in this list tha tFlorian chose to tackle related to "Lists". He called it the "LIst Override Proposal". This became the now infamous "List Enhancement Proposal War" that resulted in Sun having OASIS boot out the Foundation.
Such is life in big vendor ODF'dom
~ge~
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- From: "Florian Reuter" <freuter@novell.com>
- To: <office@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:03:24 +0100
Subject: Suggested ODF1.2 items
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->Suggested enhancement for OpenDocument V1.2
Evermore Integrated Office
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 and saved by4 people -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.evermoresw.com
- Homepage for EIOffice, a complete JAVA clone of MSOffice. This stuff is excellent! Easily surpasses OpenOffice in terms of file format conversion and compatibilitiy. EIOffice is fully capable of "round tripping" documents with MSOffice users without compromising fideltiy. Supports UOF but not ODF or MOOXMLpost by garyedwards on 2007-04-27
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EIOffice includes the features found in Microsoft Office, plus a number of productivity features found nowhere else.
Slashdot | Pro-ODF Legislation Loses In Six States
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromit.slashdot.org
- Incredible. The tile alone says it all. And the poster commenting on IBM and secret disaster that happened in Massachusetts has it right. I wonder who that commenter is anyway?post by garyedwards on 2007-06-04
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If this is the case then it greatly increases the scope of the bill from being a simple switch from MS Office to OpenOffice to a massive effort involving the definition of many new XML schemata, developing, testing and debugging software to handle the new schemata, creation of documentation, deployment of and training for the new software, etc., etc.
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Another document format is not needed. This was already obvious before blogs took off, but to be promoting now is unforgivably stupid and irresponsible. Try and explain to an average person why all the typing they just did cannot even be viewed in a Web browser, they will not get it. Saving the user's typing as DOC or ODF is a con. The storage of text, styled text, graphics, photos, even movies (MPEG-4 H.264-AAC) has been solved. Your document format is ready it is HTML 4.01 Strict, CSS 2.1, and JS 1.5, there is nothing in the 1980's technology of MS Word that cannot be stored this way.
Microsoft trounces pro-ODF forces in state battles over open document formats
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 and saved by2 people -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.computerworld.com
- A must read. And yes, the ODF Vendors are the reason ODF lost. They didn't provide useful solutions. In fact, the applicaitons they proposed were seen by government CIO's as cstly and disruptive "rip out and replace" non starters. In California, CIO's asked if it was even possible to implement ODF!!!post by garyedwards on 2007-06-06
- Uh Oh. They got IBM dead to rights in Massachusetts. I guess the truth about Massachusetts will be told! Finally. ODF failed in Massachusetts because there isn't a reasonable means of implementing ODF. Same in California.post by garyedwards on 2007-06-04
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Microsoft trounces pro-ODF forces in state battles over open document formats
Eric Lai and Gregg Keizer
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June 03, 2007
(Computerworld) -
Keeping it private
The other problem, Mathers said, was the jargon-laden disinformation that committee members felt they were being fed by lobbyists for both IBM and Microsoft. Although lobbyists would tell the committee one thing in private, they got cold feet when asked to verify the information publicly, under oath. "Suddenly, nobody wanted to sign witness affirmation forms and testify," he said.
That undermined the credibility of each side, but it particularly damaged the position of ODF proponents. After Wyne testified publicly that in Massachusetts, only a handful of computers had thus far been converted over to using ODF, IBM declined to dispute her claims, Mathers said -- despite having earlier given "gleaming" reports on the progress of ODF in Massachusetts. "That's when I really started to question the whole bill," he said.
Mass. Set to Mix Office With ODF
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.computerworld.com
- The August 28th, 2006 article about Massachusetts decision to use addon plugins. ComputerWorld - Caarol Sliwapost by garyedwards on 2007-06-05
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Massachusetts last week officially confirmed that its executive agencies for now will continue using Microsoft Office instead of switching to alternative desktop applications. But by Jan. 1, in keeping with a controversial policy announced last year, the state plans to start adding plug-in software that will let its Office users create and save files in the industry-standard OpenDocument format.
» OpenDocument or OpenXML: Do you care? | Between the Lines | ZDNet.com
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromblogs.zdnet.com
- Excellent coverage of a very important interview!post by garyedwards on 2007-06-07
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A week or so ago, I published a podcast at IT Conversation with Scott Mace interviewing Gary Edwards about OpenDocument. Edwards is the president of the OpenDocument Foundation. OpenDocument Foundation is a non-profit that works to promote the OpenDocument file format–an XML file format for office documents.
There’s no question that businesses want an XML-based file format for office data. The question, naturally, is which XML-based file format. Microsoft has it’s own XML-based file format called OpenXML.
State's move to open document formats still not a mass migration
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.computerworld.com
- Use of ODF remains minimal on government PCs in Massachusettspost by garyedwards on 2007-06-08
Eric Lai ....... June 8, 2007
Bummer! Do you think IBM is silent on this because they are busy cutting sweetheart deals with MS? Are they going to hang Sun on this? I'm sure that by next week IBM will have to respond to ODEF. This just keeps getting better. So in both Texas and California they wonder if it's even possible to implement ODF solutions. No one wants to get into that hole with Massachusetts.
~ge~
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June 08, 2007 (Computerworld) -- Only a tiny fraction of the PCs at Massachusetts government agencies are able to use the Open Document Format (ODF) for Office Applications, despite an initial deadline of this month for making sure that all state agencies could handle the file format.
IBM undeterred by setbacks to ODF adoption | InfoWorld | News | 2007-06-08 | By China Martens, IDG News Service
Tags: california, davinci, interop, iso, massachusetts, oasis, odef, odf, ooxml, opendocument, politics, xml on 2007-06-09 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.infoworld.com
- Thus spoke the little Dutch Boy, his finger in the dike, his confidence large. Meanwhile, people with half a brain were heading for the high ground. California, Texas, Massachusetts and the EU IDABC come to mind. Hello bob! Can you say ODEF?post by garyedwards on 2007-06-08
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You might think the steady defeat of bills in several U.S. states to mandate the use of free interoperable file formats might
dampen the spirits of IBM, one of the prime supporters of ODF (OpenDocument Format). Far from it, said IBM's Bob Sutor, who
sees the recent news as par for the course in the evolution of any open standard.
Government - Focus for an OS Desktop
Tags: davinci, government, msoffice, odf, oss, procurement on 2007-05-29 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromadvice.cio.com
http://www.fr0mat.net/
Tags: davinci, foundation, odf, opendocument, plugin on 2007-01-25 -All Annotations (0) -About
more fromwww.fr0mat.net
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
- Very nice job Sam!post by garyedwards on 2007-01-25
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