HTML - Gary Edwards on Diigo

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Siding with HTML over XHTML, My Decision to Switch - Monday By Noon

A CMS expert argues for HTML over XHTML, explaining his reasons for switching. Excellent read! He nails the basics. for similar reasons, we moved from ODF to ePUB and then to CDf and finally to the advanced WebKit document model, where wikiWORD will make it's stand.

Tags: html, xhtml, css, javascript on 2008-07-10 and saved by3 people -All Annotations (2) -About

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Response to marbux comments.
post by garyedwards on 2008-07-09 23:53:03
# See also my comment on the same web page that explains why HTML 5 is NOT it for document exchange between web editing applications. . - comment by marbux

# Response to marbux supporting the WebKit layout/document model.

Marbux argues that HTML5 is not interoperable, and CSS2 near useless. HTML5 fails regarding the the interop web appplications need. I respond by arguing that the only way to look at web applications is to consider that the browser layout engine is the web application layout engine! Web applications are actually written to the browser layout/document model, OR, to take advantage of browser plug-in capabilities.

The interoperability marbux seeks is tied directly to the browser layout engine. In this context, the web format is simply a reflection of that layout engine. If there's an interop problem, it comes from browser madness differentials. The good news is that there are all kinds of efforts to close the browser gap: including WHATWG - HTML5, CSS3, W3C DOM, JavaScript Libraries, Google GWT (Java to JavaScript), Yahoo GUI, and the my favorite; WebKit.

The bad news is that the clock is ticking. Microsoft has pulled the trigger and the great migration of MSOffice client/server systems to the MS WebSTack-Mesh architecture has begun. Key to this transition are the WPF-.NET proprietary formats, protocols and interfaces such as XAML, Silverlight, LINQ, and Smart Tags. New business processes are being written, and old legacy desktop bound processes are being transitioned to this emerging platform.

The fight for the Open Web is on, with Microsoft threatening to transtion their entire business desktop monopoly to a Web platform they own. The Web is going to be broken. There is no way of stopping Microsoft at this point. What we can do though is focus on Open Web solutions that are worthy alternatives to Microsoft's proprietary push. For me, this means the WebKit layout/document model supported by Apple, Adobe and Google.

~ge~
post by garyedwards on 2008-07-10 00:01:56

Publishing content on the Web is in no way limited to professional developers or designers, much of the reason the net is so active is because anyone can make a website. Sure, we (as knowledgeable professionals or hobbyists) all hope to make the Web a better place by doing our part in publishing documents with semantically rich, valid markup, but the reality is that those documents are rare. It’s important to keep in mind the true nature of the Internet; an open platform for information sharing.
XHTML2 has some very good ideas that I hope can become part of the web. However, it’s unrealistic to think that all web authors will switch to an XML-based syntax which demands that browsers stop processing the document on the first error. XML’s draconian policy was an attempt to clean up the web. This was done around 1996 when lots of invalid content entered the web. CSS took a different approach: instead of demanding that content isn’t processed, we defined rules for how to handle the undefined. It’s called “forward-compatible parsing” and means we can add new constructs without breaking the old.

So, I don’t think XHTML is a realistic option for the masses. HTML 5 is it.
@marbux: Of course i disagree with your interop assessment, but I wondered how it is that you’re missing the point. I think you confuse web applications with legacy desktop – client/server application model. And that confusion leads to the mistake of trying to transfer the desktop document model to one that could adequately service advancing web applications.

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CSS Editors Reviewed | Developer's Toolbox, CSS | Smashing Magazine

Tags: CSS, HTML, Editors on 2008-07-07 and saved by11 people -All Annotations (0) -About

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Understanding HTML, XML and XHTML | Webkit Surfin’ Safari

Tags: webkit, html, xhtml, xml on 2008-07-03 and saved by3 people -All Annotations (0) -About

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Beware of XHTML

Tags: xhtml, html, css, javascript, webkit on 2008-07-03 and saved by12 people -All Annotations (0) -About

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Running beyond the browser

Although there are many ways to slice this discussion, it might be useful to compare Adobe RIA and Microsoft Silverlight RIA in terms of web ready, highly interactive documents. The Adobe RIA story is quite different from that of Silverlight. Both however exploit the shortcomings of browsers; shortcomings that are in large part, i think, due to the disconnect the browser community has had with the W3C. The W3C forked off the HTML-CSS path, putting the bulk of their attention into XML, RDF and the Semantic Web. The web developer community stayed the course, pushing the HTML-CSS envelope with JavaScript and some rather stunning CSS magic. Adobe seems to have picked up the HTML-CSS-Javascript trail with a Microsoft innovation to take advantage of browser cache, DHTML (Dynamic HTML). DHTML morphs into AJAX, (which so wild as to have difficulty scaling). And AJAX gets tamed by an Adobe-Apple sponsored WebKit. Most people see WebKit as a browser specific layout engine, and compare it to the IE and Gecko on those terms. I would argue however that WebKit is both a document model and, a document format. For sure it's a framework for very advanced HTML-CSS-DOM-Javascript work. Because the Adobe AIR run-time is based on WebKit layout, WebKit documents can hit on all cylinders across any browser able to implement the AIR plug-in. Meaning, web developers and web content providers need only target the WebKit document model to attain the interactive access ubiquity all seek. Very cool. Let me also add that the WebKit HTML-CSS-DOM-Javascript model is capable of "fixed/flow" representation. I'll explain the importance of "fixed/flow" un momento, but think about how iPhone renders a web page and you'll understand the "flow" side of this equation.

Tags: javascript, html, css, webkit, RIA, adobe, silverlight on 2008-06-06 -All Annotations (0) -About

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Adobe AIR Language Reference for HTML Developers

Tags: air, ajax, javascript, css, html, adobe, webkit on 2008-06-02 and saved by2 people -All Annotations (0) -About

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How To make Web-Clean Documents in AbiWord

Bonus points to Paul!

Tags: HTML, CSS, AbiWord, XHTML, CDF on 2008-05-08 -All Annotations (0) -About

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ECIS Accuses Microsoft of Plotting HTML Hijack | BetaNews Jan 2007

Look at the date on this! A full year has passed and we now can clearly see the importance to Microsoft of ISO approval for MSOffice-OOXML. The MSOffice SDK provides an easy to implement OOXML <> XAML conversion component, pavign the way for billions of complex, business process rich MSOffice documents to be used by IE-8 and the emerging MS Web-Stack. XAML is proprietary and exclusive to the Microsoft Web.

Tags: xaml, xhtml, wpf, ooxml, open-web, html, css on 2008-04-18 -All Annotations (8) -About

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Vista is not the threat! The threat is that of the MS Web-Stack, at the core of which is the Exchange/SharePoint juggernaut tha tis rapidly replacing Lotus Notes and Apache as the premier server system for eMail, messaging, portal CMS, calendar-scheduling, project management, and collaborative computing.

The MS Web-Stack is able to speak HTML5-CSS2.1 as well as the proprietary XAML-Silverlight-Smart Tags set of WPF technologies designed as alternatives to advancing W3C XHTML, CSS, SVG, XForms, and RDF.
post by garyedwards on 2008-04-18 18:19:56
Great summary quote! At least someone gets it.
post by garyedwards on 2008-04-18 18:36:21

An industry coalition that has represented competitors of Microsoft in European markets before the European Commission stepped up its public relations offensive this morning, this time accusing Microsoft of scheming to upset HTML's place in the fabric of the Internet with XAML, an XML-based layout lexicon for network applications.
Add Sticky Note
- What difference does that make? XML is a language for developing domain specific XML languages. Sometimes these domain specific dialects are shared, sometimes they are not. There are ZERO interoperability requirements with XML!!!! XAML is 100% proprietary XML language written exclusively for the MSOffice-OOXML <> MS Web-Stack <> IE-8 use. That it's XML has nothing to do with the interop expected of Opne Web formats.
  
  XAML is proprietary.
  posted by garyedwards on 2008-04-18 18:23:52
Add Sticky Note
- Now that ISO/IEC has approved MSOffice-OOXML as an international standard, there is no need for Microsoft to submit XAML for consideration as an open web format.
  
  This is the true impact of ISO's unthinkable actions. In the future, Microsoft can always respond to XAML critics that MSOffice-OOXML is an open standard and the world is free to convert OOXML to whatever format they want, including advanced XHTML2-CSS3-RDF.
  
  The truth of the matter however is that no one will be able to perfect this kind of conversion in ways competitive with the OOXML <> XAML conversion component found in the MSOffice SDK. MSOffice-OOXML itself is a moving target that ISO will spend the next ten years trying to stabilize.
  
  Meanwhile, billions of complex, business process rich, MSOffice documents will be transitioned to the MS Web-Stack. Thye Exchange/SharePoint/MS-SQL juggernaut is rapidly replacing Apache, J2EE, and Lotus Notes Web server systems as Microsoft picks up the low hanging fruit of basic Web services. All teh while introducing proprietary protocols, formats and application-platform-vendor specific dependencies.
  posted by garyedwards on 2008-04-18 18:32:32
Add Sticky Note
- Uh, why would Microsoft do that? Now that MSOffice-OOXML is an aprroved ISO standard, there is no need to push XAML as an open web technology.
  posted by garyedwards on 2008-04-18 18:34:15

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Is HTML in a Race to the Bottom? A Large-Scale Survey of Open Web Formats

What makes the Internet so extraordinary is the interoperability of web ready data, content, media and the incredible sprawl of web applications servicing the volumes of information. The <i>network of networks</i> has become the information system connecting and converging all information systems. The Web is the universal platform of access, exchange and now, collaborative computing. This survey exammines the key issue of future interoperability; Web Document Formats.

Tags: html, xhtml, ooxml, xaml, css, cdf on 2008-04-18 -All Annotations (2) -About

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The "race to the bottom" is a
familiar phenomenon that occurs when multiple standards compete for acceptance.
In this environment, the most lenient standard usually attracts the greatest
support (acceptance, usage, and so on), leading to a competition among
standards to be less stringent. This also tends to drive competing standards
toward the minimum possible level of quality. One key prerequisite for a race
to the bottom is an unregulated market because regulators mandate a minimum
acceptable quality for standards and sanction those who don't
comply.^1,2 In examining current HTML standards, we've come to
suspect that a race to the bottom could, in fact, be occurring because so many
competing versions of HTML exist.

At this time, some nine different versions of HTML (including its successor,
XHTML) are supported as W3C standards, with the most up-to-date being XHTML
1.1. Although some versions are very old and lack some of the newer versions'
capabilities, others are reasonably contemporaneous. In particular, HTML 4.01
and XHTML 1.0 both have "transitional" and "strict" versions.
Clearly, the W3C's intent is to provide a pathway to move from HTML 4.01 to
XHTML 1.1, and the transitional versions are steps on that path. It also aims
to develop XHTML standards that support device independence (everything from
desktops to cell phones), accessibility, and internationalization. As part of
this effort, HTML 4.01's presentational elements (used to adjust the appearance
of a page for older browsers that don't support style sheets) are eliminated in
XHTML 1.1.

Our concern is that Web site designers might decline to follow the newer
versions' more stringent formatting requirements and will instead keep using
transitional versions. To determine if this is likely, we surveyed the top
100,000 most popular Web sites to discover what versions of HTML are in
widespread use.
Add Sticky Note
- The summary statement glosses over the value of a highly structured portable XML document. A value that goes far beyond the strict separation of content and presentation. The portable document model is the essential means by which information is exchanged over the Web. It is the key to Web interop.
  
  Up till now, Web docuemnts have been very limited. With the advent of XHTML-2, CSS-3, SVG, XForms and CDF (Compound Document Framework for putting these pieces together), the W3C has provisioned the Web with the means of publishing and exchanging highly interactive but very complex docuemnts. The Web documents of the future will be every bit as complex as the publishing industry needs.
  
  The transition of complex and data rich desktop office suite documents to the Web has been non existent up till now. With ISO approval of MSOffice-OOXML, Microsoft is now ready to transition billions of business process rich "office" documents to the Web.
  
  This transition is accomplished by a very clever conversion component included in the MSOffice SDK. MS Developers can easily convert OOXML documents to Web ready XAML documents, adn back again, without loss of presentation fidelity, or data. No matter what the complexity!
  
  The problem here is that while MSOffice-OOXML is now an ISO/IEC International Standard, XAML "fixed/flow" is a proprietary format useful only to the IE-8 browser, the MS Web Stack (Exchange, SharePoint, MS SQL, and Windows Server), and the emerging MS Cloud.
  
  Apache, J2EE, Mozilla Firefox, Adobe and Open Source Servers in general will not be able to render these complex, business process rich, office suite documents. MSOffice-OOXML itself is far to complicated and filled with MS application-platform-vendor specific dependencies to be usefully converted to Open Web XHTML-CSS, ePUB or CDF.
  
  XAML itself is only the tip of the iceberg. The Microsoft Web Stack also implements Silverlight, Smart Tags and other WPF - .NET technologies not available as open standards. Silverlight is a proprietary alternative to SVG and Flash technologies. Smart Tags and the LINQ meta search mechanism are alternatives to RDF, RDFa and SPARQL. And of course, XAML "fixed/flow" is a proprietary alternative to advanced XHTML-CSS, CDF, iPAPER, FlashPaper and PDF.
  
  Web formats are important. This survey sadly only begins to scrape the surface of the interoperability problems the future of the Open Web faces. ISO approval of MSOffice-OOXML is going to initiate a great transition of legacy client/server business process systems to a new model of highly efficient, barrier free and cloud ready client/ Web-Stack /server systems.
  
  Hope this helps,
  
  ~ge~
  posted by garyedwards on 2008-04-18 17:51:38

Picasa HTML-CSS Page Layout - Brian - Redfern

Basic layout of highly strucutred HTML - CSS page design

Tags: html, css, xhtml on 2008-04-05 -All Annotations (0) -About

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NicEdit - WYSIWYG Content Editor, Inline Rich Text Application

Tags: ajax, editor, html, xhtml on 2008-03-23 and saved by28 people -All Annotations (0) -About

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IE aims to embrace the web again | Technology | The Guardian

Tags: CSS, HTML, Hachamovitch, IE, Microsoft, Silverlight, W3C, WPF, XAML, XHTML on 2008-03-15 -All Annotations (0) -About

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HTML Playground, html, css reference by example - Flock

very cool interactive reference for xhtml + css design.

Tags: css, html, xhtml on 2008-02-10 and saved by155 people -All Annotations (4) -About

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Microsoft Partners with Atlassian & NewsGator - SharePoint Goes Web 2.0 - Flock

Tags: exchange, html, ms-ooxml, sharepoint, w3c, web20 on 2007-10-20 and saved by3 people -All Annotations (1) -About

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SynOA What? Syndicated Application Architectures Come of Age - O'Reilly XML Blog

Tags: atom, cdf, html, json, soa, syndication, synoa, xml on 2007-09-21 -All Annotations (1) -About

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Indecision in Redmond as Web apps charge : Office 2.0 and Google Apps

Tags: cdf, html, odf, officeopenxml, ooxml, opendocument on 2007-09-12 -All Annotations (1) -About

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Great quote from Eric Knorr. He hits the nail on the head here, pointing out the problem Office 2.0 Web Apps and SaaS apps face: If these Web wonders have interoperability and high fidelity document exchange with MSOffice, their collaborative features are value added wonders for existing business processes and workgroup-workflow scenarios. If, on the other hand they lack this level of interop - integration with MSOffice documents and processes, the value add becomes a problematic split in a business process. The only way to overcome that kind of a split is to take the entire process. Which is difficult for lightweight mashup happy web wonders to do.

Which leaves each and every one of these Office 2.0 - Web 2.0 - Saas Apps vulnerable to Microsoft. As long as Micrsoft owns the interop-integration keys to MSOffice, the web wonders live a precarious life. At any time Microsoft can swoop in and take it all.

Today, the MSOffice OOXML file format displays perfectly in a browser. It's 100% web ready, but only the MS Stack of applications gets to play. Web wonders are not likely to recieve a Redmond invite now or ever.

Which brings us to the issue of the da Vinci plug-in for MSOffice. da Vinci is a clone of the OOXML plug-in for MSOffice, and fully leverages the same internal conversion process that OOXML enjoys. It can achieve the same high fidelity "round trip" conversion that OOXML is capable of. Maybe even better.

The problem for da Vinci isn't conversion fidlelity. Nor is it capturing business process important VBa scripts, macros, OLE, and security settings. da Vinci can do that just fine. The problem is that da Vinci cannot pipe MSOffice developer platform documents into ODF!! For the love of five generic eXtensions, called the iX "interoperability enhancements", which the OASIS ODF TC blew off, ODF failed in Massachusetts.

Without these iX "interoperability enhancements", it's impossible to implement ODF anywhere there are MSOffice bound workgroups and business processes. Which is just about everywhere.

So what now?

For the past four months we have been converting da Vinci to pipe into a recent W3C release of HTML+. It's difficult, but we now are certain it can be done with the same high fidelity "round trip" conversion Microsoft achieves with the OOXML plug-in.

The significance of this discovery and proof is that there is a web ready alternative to MS-OOXML and the MS Stack. An alternative that should provide Office 2.0 - Web 2.0 and SaaS apps the same measure of interop - integration with existing documents, applications and processes that Microsoft now enjoys.

The consumer is caught between a rock and a hard place. Waiting for either the ODF or the OOXML gangs of big vendors to blink is a non starter. And even if they did want to harmonize or converge, that in itself may well be a technical impossiblity. The differences between how MSOffice works and how OpenOffice works are directly and "perfectly" reflected in the file formats. And never the twain shall meet.

So here it is. The world is not a clean slate. There are MSoffice workgroups everywhere. Meaning, in real world terms ODF is impossible to implement. Besides that, ODF is a desktop office suite only file format. It was not designed for the Internet, and can only be useful in that capacity through a lossy conversion. OOXML was designed to cover the full expanse of desktop, server, device and web. Only, it's to be a 100% Microsoft dominated and controlled expanse. Which leaves us with one alternative: HTML+

Time to get back to work :)

~ge~

Ref: "Why Can't We All Just Get Along?"

post by garyedwards on 2007-09-12 22:11:40

the fact is that Redmond could own this new space if it wanted to. All it would need to do is push interoperability and integration between lightweight Web versions of Office applications and its desktop fatware. Advanced features would be absent from the lightweight versions, but the company could ensure any Office doc would load on the Web -- whatever new desktop service packs and upgrades might appear -- and online document management could be integrated with Windows for offline access.

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Why Can't We All Just Get Along?

Tags: cdf, html, odf, officeopenxml, ooxml, opendocument, universaldocument on 2007-09-12 -All Annotations (1) -About

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Gary Edwards's Bookmarks tagged HTML → View Popular

Siding with HTML over XHTML, My Decision to Switch - Monday By Noon

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Adobe AIR Language Reference for HTML Developers

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HTML Formatting Instructions - Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)

ECIS Accuses Microsoft of Plotting HTML Hijack | BetaNews Jan 2007

Is HTML in a Race to the Bottom? A Large-Scale Survey of Open Web Formats

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