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"One day when I was dining with him there happened to be
at table one of the English lawyers, who took occasion to run
out in a high commendation of the severe execution of justice
upon thieves, who, as he said, were then hanged so fast that there
were sometimes twenty on one gibbet; and upon that he said he
could not wonder enough how it came to pass, that since so few
escaped, there were yet so many thieves left who were still robbing
in all places. Upon this, I who took the boldness to speak freely
before the cardinal, said there was no reason to wonder at the
matter, since this way of punishing thieves was neither just in
itself nor good for the public; for as the severity was too great,
so the remedy was not effectual; simple theft not being so great
a crime that it ought to cost a man his life, no punishment how
severe soever being able to restrain those from robbing who can
find out no other way of livelihood. 'In this,' said I, 'not only
you in England, but a great part of the world imitate some ill
masters that are readier to chastise their scholars than to teach
them. There are dreadful punishments enacted against thieves,
but it were much better to make such good provisions by which
every man might be put in a method how to live, and so be preserved
from the fatal necessity of stealing and of dying for it.'

"'There has been care enough taken for that,' said he, 'there
are many handicrafts, and there is husbandry, by which they may
make a shift to live unless they have a greater mind to follow
ill courses.'

"'That will not serve your turn,' said I, 'for many lose
their limbs in civil or foreign wars, as lately in the Cornish
rebellion, and some time ago in your wars with France, who being
thus mutilated in the service of their king and country, can no
more follow their old trades, and are too old to learn new ones:
but since wars are only accidental things, and have intervals,
let us consider those things that fall out every day. There is
a great number of noblemen among you, that are themselves as idle
as drones, that subsist on other men's labor, on the labor of
their tenants, whom, to raise their revenues, they pare to the
quick. This indeed is the only instance of their frugality, for
in all other things they are prodigal, even to the beggaring of
themselves: but besides this, they carry about with them a great
number of idle fellows, who never learned any art by which they
may gain their living; and these, as soon as either their lord
dies or they themselves fall sick, are turned out of doors; for
your lords are readier to feed idle people than to take care of
the sick; and often the heir is not able to keep together so great
a family as his predecessor did. Now when the stomachs of those
that are thus turned out of doors grow keen, they rob no less
keenly; and what else can they do? for when, by wandering about,
they have worn out both their health and their clothes, and are
tattered, and look ghastly, men of quality will not entertain
them, and poor men dare not do it, knowing that one who has been
bred up in idleness and pleasure, and who was used to walk about
with his sword and buckler, despising all the neighborhood with
an insolent scorn as far below him, is not fit for the spade and
mattock: nor will he serve a poor man for so small a hire, and
in so low a diet as he can afford to give him.'

After those civilities were passed which are usual
with strangers upon their first meeting, we all went to my house,
and entering into the garden, sat down on a green bank, and entertained
one another in discourse. He told us that when Vespucius had sailed
away, he and his companions that stayed behind in New Castile,
by degrees insinuated themselves into the affections of the people
of the country, meeting often with them, and treating them gently:
and at last they not only lived among them without danger, but
conversed familiarly with them; and got so far into the heart
of a prince, whose name and country I have forgot, that he both
furnished them plentifully with all things necessary, and also
with the conveniences of travelling; both boats when they went
by water, and wagons when they travelled over land: he sent with
them a very faithful guide, who was to introduce and recommend
them to such other princes as they had a mind to see: and after
many days' journey, they came to towns and cities, and to commonwealths,
that were both happily governed and well-peopled. Under the equator,
and as far on both sides of it as the sun moves, there lay vast
deserts that were parched with the perpetual heat of the sun;
the soil was withered, all things looked dismally, and all places
were either quite uninhabited, or abounded with wild beasts and
serpents, and some few men that were neither less wild nor less
cruel than the beasts themselves.

But as they went farther, a new scene opened, all things grew
milder, the air less burning, the soil more verdant, and even
the beasts were less wild: and at last there were nations, towns,
and cities, that had not only mutual commerce among themselves,
and with their neighbors, but traded both by sea and land, to
very remote countries. There they found the conveniences of seeing
many countries on all hands, for no ship went any voyage into
which he and his companions were not very welcome. The first vessels
that they saw were flat-bottomed, their sails were made of reeds
and wicker woven close together, only some were of leather; but
afterward they found ships made with round keels and canvas sails,
and in all respects like our ships; and the seamen understood
both astronomy and navigation. He got wonderfully into their favor,
by showing them the use of the needle, of which till then they
were utterly ignorant. They sailed before with great caution,
and only in summer-time, but now they count all seasons alike,
trusting wholly to the loadstone, in which they are perhaps more
secure than safe; so that there is reason to fear that this discovery,
which was thought would prove so much to their advantage, may
by their imprudence become an occasion of much mischief to them.
But it were too long to dwell on all that he told us he had observed
in every place, it would be too great a digression from our present
purpose: whatever is necessary to be told, concerning those wise
and prudent institutions which he observed among civilized nations,
may perhaps be related by us on a more proper occasion. We asked
him many questions concerning all these things, to which he answered
very willingly; only we made no inquiries after monsters, than
which nothing is more common; for everywhere one may hear of ravenous
dogs and wolves, and cruel man-eaters; but it is not so easy to
find States that are well and wisely governed.

I was lately myself at a theological dispute, for I am often there, where when one was
demanding what authority there was in Holy Writ that commands heretics to be convinced by
fire rather than reclaimed by argument; a crabbed old fellow, and one whose supercilious
gravity spoke him at least a doctor, answered in a great fume that Saint Paul had decreed
it, who said, "Reject him that is a heretic, after once or twice admonition."
And when he had sundry times, one after another, thundered out the same thing, and most
men wondered what ailed the man, at last he explained it thus, making two words of one:
"A heretic must be put to death. Some laughed, and yet there wanted not others to
whom this exposition seemed plainly theological; which, when some, though those very few,
opposed, they cut off the dispute, as we say, with a hatchet, and the credit of so
uncontrollable an author. "Pray conceive me," said he, "it is written,
'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.' But every heretic bewitches the people;
therefore, etc."

And now, as many as were present admired the man's wit, and consequently submitted to
his decision of the question. Nor came it into any of their heads that that law concerned
only fortunetellers, enchanters, and magicians, whom the Hebrews call in their tongue
"Mecaschephim," witches or sorcerers: for otherwise, perhaps, by the same reason
it might as well have extended to fornication and drunkenness.

But I foolishly run on in these matters, though yet there are so many of them that
neither Chrysippus' nor Didymus' volumes are large enough to contain them. I would only
desire you to consider this, that if so great doctors may be allowed this liberty, you may
the more reasonably pardon even me also, a raw, effeminate divine, if I quote not
everything so exactly as I should. And so at last I return to Paul. "Ye
willingly," says he, "suffer my foolishness," and again, "Take me as a
fool," and further, "I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were
foolishly," and in another place, "We are fools for Christ's sake."