Garyedwards's Favorite Links on openoffice from Diigo

ZoooS.com - Your Online Productivity Center

Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:27:08 -0000

Hisham El-Emam's OpenOffice in a browser work

Tags: openoffice office20 editlive wikiword plutext

Do we need two open source office suites? | TalkBack on ZDNet

Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:52:27 -0000

Response to ZDNet article about Lotus Symphony and OpenOffice. Dana gets it terribly wrong, claiming that Lotus Symphony is "open Source". I respond by setting the record straight. Couldn't help myself though. I dove into the whole "rip out and replace", government mandates, ODF vs. OOXML thing. ending of course with the transition from client/server to client/Web-Stack/server and the future of the Web.

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Symphony isn't based on Lotus 1-2-3 and AmiPro (WordPro). It's originally based on OpenOffice 1.1.4. And has since been updated by Sun's StarOffice group to OpenOffice 2 something.

The history here is that IBM ripped off the OpenOffice 1.1.4 code base when it was still under the dual SSSL-LGPL license. Here it languished as IBM "WorkPlace", finally to be released as Lotus Symphony.

Tags: odf openoffice symphony web-future XAML

Posted by: garyedwards

The OASIS ODF Archives! Hoist on their own petard

Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:03:11 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

[Fwd: clarification: OpenDocument and SVG]
From Lars Oppermann <Lars.Oppermann@Sun.COM> on 2 Feb 2005 10:31:44 -0000
- Re: [office] [Fwd: clarification: OpenDocument and SVG]
  From Michael Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM> on 2 Feb 2005 12:16:44 -0000
  - Message not available.
    - Message not available.
    - Message not available.
    - Re: [office] [Fwd: clarification: OpenDocument and SVG]
      From Michael Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM> on 3 Feb 2005 10:14:18 -0000
    - Message not available.
    - Re: [office] [Fwd: clarification: OpenDocument and SVG]
      From Michael Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM> on 3 Feb 2005 14:01:24 -0000
Propsal regarding the use of the SVG namespace in OpenDocument
From Michael Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM> on 3 Feb 2005 13:49:10 -0000
- Use of SVG namespace
  From Patrick Durusau <Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org> on 7 Feb 2005 13:34:56 -0000

Tags: archives oasis odf openoffice

Posted by: garyedwards

IBM to take Lotus Symphony apps 'Beyond Office' | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:01:17 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Under a strategy called "Beyond Office," IBM is developing several technologies to make Symphony an extensible development platform for business applications and Web-based document editors.

Rather than compete head-to-head with Microsoft Office, IBM's strategy is to make documents act like "containers" for information within workflow and collaboration applications, according to IBM executives.

The plan also calls for IBM to make documents based on the Open Document standard available through Web browsers using Adobe Flash or HTML. On Wednesday, IBM opened a Web site called Bluehouse where small business people can access hosted Web applications for sharing documents.

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

[office] The infamous list-override list enhancement proposal

Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:01:08 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Well, I think the problem we face is that there are different interpretations of the 1.1 specification regarding the numbering of numbered paragraphs that have different list styles assigned. We therefore cannot say that the one or the other proposal is backward-compatible to the ODF 1.1 specification regarding the number or the style. We can only say whether it is backward-compatible to a certain _interpretation_ of the ODF 1.1 specification regarding the number or the style.

Tags: application-specific florian-reuter foundation list-enhancement michael-brauer

Posted by: garyedwards

Issue 51726: OpenOffice ODF Graphics Nightmare

Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:56:15 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Currently, the above given specification is a draft and has to be adjusted. Beside the change of the context menu and the navigator it's is needed to adjust the import of the XML file formats (OpenDocument and OpenOffice.org) and the export to the OpenOffice.org file format. The import needs adjustment, because the existence of name is used to distinguish Writer graphics/text boxes and Draw graphics/text boxes. The new criterium is now, that Draw graphics/text boxes of Writer documents doesn't have a parent style. The export to the OpenOffice.org file format needs adjustment, because a Writer document in the OpenOffice.org file format doesn't contain names for shapes.

The EU DIN effort to harmonize or merge ODF and OOXML has uncovered some incredible inconsistencies in OpenOffice ODF tht will break interop every time, guaranteed. This particular issue has to do with problems naming graphics, and the hack solution now in use. It's hacks like this that make it impossible to convert MSOffice binaries to ODF. posted by garyedwards

Tags: application-specific din florian-reuter graphics odf

Posted by: garyedwards

Can IBM save OpenOffice.org from itself?

Fri, 25 Jan 2008 02:21:52 -0000

Comments:

Lotus Symphony is based on the OpenOffice 1.1.4 code base that IBM ripped off back when OpenOffice was under dual license - SSSL and LGPL.
posted by garyedwards
Heintzman must be referring to the Rob Weir -OASIS ODF Adoption (cough marketing-lobbying) TC event called the "ODF Interoperability Workshop".
This was a day long event demonstrating for all the world to see that there is no such thing as ODF interoperability. The exchange of documents between OpenOffice 2.0, KOffice and Lotus Symphony is pathetic.

The results of the day long event were so discouraging that Rob Weir took to threatening developers who attended in his efforts to keep a lid on it. I think this is called damage control :). From what i hear, it was a very long day for Rob. but that's no excuse for his threatening anyone who might publicly talk about these horrific interop problems. The public expects these problems to be fixed. But how can they be fixed if the issues can't be discussed publicly?
posted by garyedwards

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

In e-mailed comments, Heintzman said his criticisms about the situation have been made openly.

"We think that Open Office has quite a bit of potential and would love to see it move to the independent foundation that was promised in the press release back when Sun originally announced OpenOffice," he said. "We think that there are plenty of existing models of communities, [such as] Apache and Eclipse, that we can look to as models of open governance, copyright aggregation and licensing regimes that would make the code much more relevant to a much larger set of potential contributors and implementers of the technology....

"Obviously, by joining we do believe that the organization is important and has potential," he wrote. "I think that new voices at the table, including IBM's, will help the organization become more efficient and relevant to a greater audience.... Our primary reason for joining was to contribute to the community and leverage the work that the community produces.... I think it is true there are many areas worthy of improvement and I sincerely hope we can work on those.... I hope the story coming out of Barcelona isn't a dysfunctional community story, but rather a [story about a] potentially significant and meaningful community with considerable potential that has lots of room for improvement...."

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

Novell: No end to OOXML disputes - ZDNet UK

Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:13:41 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Despite some efforts by the two camps, ODF and OOXML are, for the most part, not interoperable, meaning documents that are created in one format cannot be successfully read by applications based on the other format.

According to Novell's vice president of developer platforms, Miguel de Icaza, the situation won't change in the foreseeable future.

The money quote. ODF was not designed to be compatible with the billions of MSOffice legacy documents, or interoperable with the 5550 million legacy MSOffice desktops. posted by garyedwards

"Neither group is willing to make the big changes required for real compatibility," de Icaza added.

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

Podcast: ODF, OOXML and CDF .... The OpenDocument Foundation Responds | Between the Lines | ZDNet.com

Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:12:58 -0000

Comments:

Dragged through the mud posted by garyedwards

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

David continues his deep dive into the curious case of the OpenDocument Format and the OpenDocument Foundation.

Tags: cdf foundation ibm iso oasis

Posted by: garyedwards

Can IBM save OpenOffice.org from itself?

Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

OpenOffice.org's biggest foe may be Microsoft Office, but critics say the open-source organization has, from its inception, also been one of its application suite's own worst enemies -- a victim of a development culture that differs radically from the open-source norm. Observers now wonder if IBM's entry into OpenOffice.org can make the necessary changes.

good article from Eric Lai of ComputerWorld. Written on the eve of the infamous Barcelona OpenOffice.org developers conference, Eric argues that OOo isn't a real open source community. Instead, OOo is a owned and operated by Sun.

One of the more important control points Sun insists on is that of commit rights and project managers. Only Sun employees have these rights and can hold these important positions..

The more important point is made by Marbux (below: ODF is an application specific format designed exactly for OpenOffice. While other applications might partially implement ODF, interoperability and successful ODF document exchange require the OOo code base!

From Marbux:

This is the only article I've found to date where IBM (Heintzman) flat out says IBM wants changes in OOo licensing, more in line with the Eclipse and Apache licenses. See pg. 2. Significant because it feeds the meme that IBM's own ODF-based development goal is proprietary closed source built on the OOo code base, e.g., Symphony, et cet.

And that has huge signficance once you realize that ODF is not the real standard; the OOo code base is the real ODF standard. Look around the world and you see that ODF adoption decisions by governments are all in reality decisions to go with StarOffice, OOo, or OOo clones. I haven't, for example, seen a single instance where a government decided to ride with KOffice. Why would they, with the interop issues between KOffice and OOo? The fact that OOo's code base is the real ODF standard will figure strongly in the comments. Couple it with Sun's iron-fisted control of the OOo code base, and you have vendor lock-in with a Microsoft partner.

But with 70 developers committed in China, where developers salaries are inexpensive, IBM will soon be in a position to threaten to fork the OOo code base using proprietary extensions. Is that their real tactic to force changes in licensing and gov
posted by garyedwards

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

Whoops?! IBM products support Microsoft's Open XML doc format! Lotushpere

Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:40:58 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Nobody has invested more to defeat Microsoft Corp.'s Open XML document format than IBM Corp.

So why is IBM supporting Open XML in a handful of its products?

According to technical documentation on IBM's own Web sites, Big Blue already supports Open XML, the native file format of Microsoft Office 2007, in at least four of its software.

However, Microsoft Office users interested in testing or switching to Lotus Symphony, IBM's upcoming challenger to Office, may be disheartened by signs that IBM won't budge from its stance that it will only support documents created in Office 2003 and prior versions.

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

5 Things Microsoft Must Do To Reclaim Its Mojo In 2008 -- InformationWeek

Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:37:34 -0000

Highlights and Sticky Notes:

Instead of fighting standards, Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT) needs to get on board now more than ever. With open, Web-based office software backed by the likes of IBM (NYSE: IBM) (think Lotus Symphony) and Google (NSDQ: GOOG) now a viable option, users—especially businesses frustrated by Microsoft's format follies (many are discovering that OOXML is not even fully backwards-compatible with previous versions of Microsoft Word)--can now easily switch to an online product without having to rip and replace their entire desktop infrastructure.

This article discusses how Microsoft might change their ways and save the company. This particular quote concerns Microsoft support for standards, and their fight to push MS OOXML through ISO as an alternative to ISO approved ODF 1.0.

The thing is, ODF was not designed for the conversion of MSOffice documents, of which there are billions. Nor was ODF designed to be implemented by MSOffice. ODF was designed exactly for OpenOffice, which has a differnet model for impementing basic docuemnt structures than MSOffice.

So a couple of points regardign this highlight:

The first is that IBM's Lotus Symphony is NOT Open Source. IBM ripped off the OpenOffice 1.1.4 code base back when it was dual licensed under both SSSL and LGPL. IBM then closed the source code adding a wealth of proprietary eXtensions (think XForms and Lotus Notes connections). Then IBM released the proprietary Symphony as a free alternative to the original Open Source Community "OpenOffice.org".

If Microsoft had similarly ripped off an open source community, there would be hell to pay.

Another point here is the mistaken assumption that users can easily switch from MSOffice to an on-line product like Google Docs or ZOHO "without having to rip our and replace their entire desktop infrastructure."

This is a ridiculous assumption defied by the facts on the ground. Massqchusetts spent two years trying to migrate to ODF and couldn't do it. Every other pilot study known has experienced the same difficulties!

The thing about Web 2.0 alternatives is that these services can not be integrated into existing business processes and MSOffice workgroup bound activities. The collaborative advantages of Web 2.0 alternatives are disruptive and outside existing workflows, greatly marginalizing their usefulness. IF, and that's a big IF, MSOffice plug-ins were successful in the high fidelity round trip conversion of wor
posted by garyedwards

Microsoft in 2008 could make a bold statement in support of standards by admitting that its attempt to force OOXML on the industry was a mistake and that it will work to develop cross-platform compatibility between that format and the Open Document Format

It's impossible to harmonize two application specific file formats. The only way to establish an effective compatibility between ODF and OOXML would be to establish a compatibility between OpenOffice and MSOffice.

The problem is that neither ODF or OOXML were developed as generirc file formats. They are both application specific, directly reflecting the particular implementation models of OOo and MSOffice.

Sun and the OASIS ODF TC are not about to compromise OpenOffice feature sets and implmentation methods to improve interop with MSOffice. Sun in particular will protect the innovative features of OpenOffice that are reflected in ODF and stubbornly incompatible with MSOffice and the billions of binary documents. This fact can easily be proven be any review of the infamous "List Enhancement Proposal" that dominated discussions at the OASIS ODF TC from November of 2006 through May of 2007.

So if Sun and the OASIS ODF TC refuse to make any efforts towards compatibility and imporved interop with MSOffice and the billions of binary docuemnts seekign conversion to ODF, then it falls to Microsoft to alter MSOffice. With 550 million MSOffice desktops involved in workgroup bound business processes, any changes would be costly and disruptive. (Much to the glee of Sun and IBM).

IBM in particular has committed a good amount of resources and money lobbying for government mandates establishing ODF as the accepted format. this would of course result in a massively disruptive and costly rip out and replace of MSOffice.

Such are the politics of ODF.

posted by garyedwards

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

Can IBM save OpenOffice.org from itself?

Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:36:24 -0000

Comments:

Good catch by Eric!

This link is to the infamous Sun statement of support for MS OOXML issued by Jon Bosak when ISO DIS 2900 was voted on by the US delegation to ISO.

The statement is important because it directly references the core issue: MS OOXML was written for MSOffice and the billions of binary docuemnts bound to that application suite. ODF on the other hand was written to OpenOffice.

Because ODF was not designed for the conversion of those billions of MSOffice documents, conversion is next to impossible. The implementation of ODF in MSOffice is next to impossible. The loss of information, especially the presentation-layout information, is so severe as to be intolerable in the real world.

This leaves the real world, where MSOffice dominates over 550 million desktops, unable to implement ODF. In light of this real world problem, Sun's Bosak urges support for MS OOXML as an ISO standard!!!

So we have this situation at OASIS ODF where Sun is in control of both ODF and OpenOffice, refusing in all cases to compromise the linkage or accomodate the much needed interoperability enhancemnts seeking to improve the conversion of billions of documents to ODF. And publicly supporting MS OOXML as the only pragmatic alternative to the situation Sun is responsible for!

posted by garyedwards
This quote from Chalres Schultz is ridiculous. Because Novell is not allowed to commit code to OpenOffice, they must maintain a separate code base of extensions and improvements. With each build of OpenOffice, Novell must reintegrate their changes into the code base, making for a managerial nightmare.

When Novell does have improvements that Sun wants though, there is no end to the hoops of fire the Sun developers will jump through to get it. The Field Enhancement routine written by Novell's Florian Router is one of those improvements that Sun had to have. Sun even went so far as to arguing for changes in the way ODF implements fields to accomodate the Novell improvements!

It's important to note however that Sun did not support the ODF Field Enhancements UNTIL Novell agreed to donate Florian's code to OpenOffice!!!!!! Proving conclusively what i have been arguing for years: Sun does not allow for any changes to ODF unless and until those changes can be implemented by OpenOffice.

The ODF Field Enhancements needed by Florian's fix to OpenOffice were originally proposed on July 12th, 2006, when Florian was the CTO of the OpenDocument Foundation. These changes to the way ODF implements fields were needed by the da Vinci plug-in as part of our efforts to save ODF in Massachusetts.

so here we have a rather direct example of Sun refusing improvements to ODF when needed by another application (da Vinci), but supporting those exact same changes when it is OpenOffice that can be improved!!!

The arguments that the OpenOffice.org Community isn't open also apply to the OASIS ODF TC work!!!!!!
posted by garyedwards

Tags: cdf ibm iso oasis odf

Posted by: garyedwards

ODF tied to OpenOffice? Say it isn't so! -- gary.edwards's comment on "IBM Symphony falls on deaf ears without open source e-mail, calendar" | TalkBack on ZDNet

Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:32:11 -0000

Comments:

Good discussion on IBM's recent release of OpenOffice as Lotus Symphony. OpenOffice Community Marketing Lead, John McCreesh, steps into it though with an errant quote. Sadly, i have to take him to task. posted by garyedwards

Tags: ibm lotus-symphony odf ooxml openoffice

Posted by: garyedwards

From Open Source to Open Standard: The OASIS OpenDocument Format

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:27:54 -0000

Tags: imported:del.icio.us michaelbrauer odf opendocument openoffice

Posted by: garyedwards

Greeks bearing gifts

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:27:53 -0000

Tags: gpl ibm imported:del.icio.us linux microsoft

Posted by: garyedwards

OpenOffice Blesses Microsoft-Novell Pact - Software Technology News by TechWeb

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:27:52 -0000

Tags: ibm imported:del.icio.us microsoft moox msecma

Posted by: garyedwards

OpenOffice Writer lists: Dependable, powerful and won't self-replicate when you're not looking

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:27:52 -0000

Tags: imported:del.icio.us openoffice

Posted by: garyedwards

digg / garyedwards / news / dugg

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:27:52 -0000

Tags: ecma eooxml imported:del.icio.us odf openoffice

Posted by: garyedwards

Joint letter to the Open Source Community From Novell and Microsoft

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:27:52 -0000

Tags: florian gpl ibm imported:del.icio.us indemnification

Posted by: garyedwards