LEADERSHIP
Francis Collins: Love God With a Scientific Mind (Part II)
2.17.08
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Article:
Ten years ago, the average person had probably never heard the word "genome," but Francis Collins was already the director of the Human Genome Project. It's a project many are calling the most important scientific undertaking of our time.
In 2000, Collins publicly presented the first draft of the human genome alongside President Clinton. According to his New York Times bestseller, The Language of God, Clinton's speech on that day took a surprisingly spiritual turn: "Today we are learning the language in which God created life. We are gaining ever more awe for the complexity, the beauty, and the wonder of God's most divine and sacred gift."
As an outspoken scientist, Christian, and theistic-evolutionist, Collins sits at an incredibly controversial crossroads. Many Christians fear his defense of evolution while many Darwinists shun his faith. Regardless of where you stand on these issues, there is no denying that Christians can learn something from Francis Collins approach to worship and scientific research.
>> Read Part 1 of our interview with Francis Collins
In The Language of God, you talk about intelligent design as a "God of the Gaps Theory." Is the statement you just made relying on altruism as a "God of the Gaps Theory"? Who's to say that altruism isn't going to be chemically explained someday?
I think that's a very appropriate question, and I would not rest my faith on this argument that altruism is an indication of God's presence. I think it is an interesting argument; I think it's unlikely to be displaced by the sociobiologists, but I would not be horrified if some other explanations come along that seem to provide a naturalistic explanation for these human motivations. We have to be careful about trying to attach any kind of observation about the natural world as a definite proof of God's existence, but these arguments can be an interesting way to help skeptical people begin to think about what it might look like if God were not part of our world. Would these kind of altruistic impulses exist? Would good and evil have any meaning at all if our world is purely an artifact of evolutionary pressures? I think most people would be very alarmed at the idea that our concepts of good and evil are illusions imposed upon us simply by natural selection. That doesn't seem to jive with our own human experience. Even atheists bridle at that conclusion.
C. S. Lewis talks about those kinds of pressures in The Abolition of Man. He says, "Each new power won by man is a power over man as well." What power do you think modern genetics is winning, and how do you think that power will be held over others?
Some people are concerned we will use these technologies in ways that are not consistent with God's plan for our lives—to enhance performance or to design the next generation of human beings, for instance. Although most of those scenarios are scientifically unrealistic, I'm proud that the Human Genome Project invested a substantial amount of our budget in the ethical, legal, and social issues. A cohort of really remarkable scholars, lawyers, social scientists, ethicists, and theologians are quite engaged in some of these discussions. No single person is going to be able to make the decision about what boundaries we ought not to cross.
You describe DNA as the language of God. How has your study of DNA changed your understanding of God's Word, the Logos, that John writes about? "In the beginning was the Word."
Logos carries broad connotations. The Word is God; the Word was with God; the Word is Christ. For a scientist studying how life works looking at the language of DNA, it is not a wild connection to compare the language of life, that DNA alphabet, to what God was doing when He spoke life into being, including all of us. So how do I put together what I know as a scientist about life through the language of DNA, and what I know about God as the creator who speaks life into being? In the Greek terminology that's Bios, the word for life, through Logos, the word. I call this BioLogos: life through God speaking His Word.
Jesus, the Word, said to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself; these are the two greatest commandments. What does it look like when you love God in your daily work?
That's a great question. Notice that Jesus added mind when he rephrased the commandments, adding that to what you find in the Old Testament. I find it very interesting that Jesus does call us to love the Lord our God with our minds. That is a wonderful exhortation for scientists who use their minds to explore how things work. The tools of science are also a way to love the Lord your God, a way to worship. That's what it feels like to me. It's an incredible privilege to explore God's creation and get new glimpses of God's mind with each discovery. To see God's hand in science greatly expands the joy of the enterprise for me, and I say that as somebody who was once an atheist. I know what science is like without God, and I like it a lot better with God.
What does it look like when you go to work and love your neighbors in your daily work?
As a physician, I study DNA with the hopes that it is going to provide medical benefits to people all over the world. This seems to me like an incredible opportunity. Do you know what is spilling out of the research efforts around us? Discoveries about heart disease and cancer and diabetes that are going to change the way we prevent and treat these diseases. The tools of genomics are now being applied to malaria, the greatest scourge on this planet, one which I as a volunteer missionary doctor, marveled over and feared when I was in Africa trying to take care of patients with this disease.
I've heard people say BioLogos is just another name for Christian evolution. Are you comfortable with being the spokesperson for Christian evolution?
I see evolution as God's plan. As a scientist who studies DNA, I cannot avoid the conclusion that the evolutionary process is in fact how God worked out that creative plan. Some people express concerns that evolution is inconsistent with a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2, but 1,600 years ago St. Augustine had already explained why a literal reading of those passages is risky and unnecessary. Certainly those passages of the Bible have been debated for centuries without theologians being able to agree precisely on their meaning. Beyond that concern, I see no conflict in what I have learned about living things from the study of DNA and what I know about God's plan as a creator—right down to the creation of you and me, and our having this conversation.
One of the great tragedies of our current era is that evolution is being portrayed as a threat to God. If science is God's gift to us, along with the intelligence to explore his world, God could hardly be threatened by what we discover. It's all his creation. The truth is the truth, and it's all God's truth. I reach out as much as I can to my Christian brothers and sisters and try to make a case that this is an unnecessary battle. We can embrace evolution as God's plan and worship him in the process, without feeling anxious or apologetic.
READER'S COMMENTS
One of the problems with Mr. Collins' interview is he uses the words "evolution" and "science" interchangeably, when in fact they are distinct. Creationists practice science without believing in evolution. Science is the search for the truth, not bowing at the alter of Darwinism/Naturalism.
Since Collins is content to throw out the parts of the Bible in Genesis that he does not like, which other parts can we disregard? Was Adam a real person or a mythical character? Was there death/suffering before the first sin? How do you rationalize Romans 5:12-21 with your evolutionary mindset? Was there a worldwide flood? In the evolutionary timeframe the earth has existed for billions of years, and yet Jesus said, "at the beginning of creation, God made them male and female" in Mark 10:6. But if you look at the evolutionary timeline, humans appear at the very end of the line...not the beginning. How does your "Christian" worldview rationalize this?
What do you, Mr. Collins, think about the connection that Hitler/Nazism had with the concept of "natural selection"? Could this theory (Evolution) be used again to justify a future holocaust? Also, do you believe that there are some ethnicities that are so-called "superior" to others; do you believe "survival of the fittest" proves that obsurd claim? And, have you seen the movie, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"? If so, what did you think about it? -Thank you.
To even suggest that evolution is God's plan is to completely ignore the truth of Genesis and the scriptures as a whole. True science confirms God as Creator and rejects the lie of evolution.
I am disappointed that this email newsletter would even give space to this author.
I don't have the Language of God handy right now, but Francis Collins certainly distinguishes between various forms of evolution.
I have not seen Expelled, but Francis Collins said the makers of Expelled didn't ask him to participate in the movie: Scientists Feel Miscast in Film on Life's Origin.
The complexity of things really doesnt prove science -- it proves God. You can argue with Francis Collins theology -- and I do -- but under the miscroscope eye, he is learning that this world is far bigger than our silly scientific explanation
Well, science and religion really haven't found kinship, have they? It seems every scientist wants to make nice with his Darwinistic pals....
Here's one who hasnt compromised, who hasn't been expelled: Guillermo Gonzalez. Read his story.
http://redletterbelievers.blogspot.com/2008/04/expelled-for-his-beliefs.html
I found the two-part article interesting but not very informative. All it said was that Dr. Collins believes that science supports evolution and that he finds religion and evolution to be compatible. I am not sure if he believes that the design (evidently) of DNA leads him to believe in God, or that he believes in God for some other reason(s). I have picked up his book in the hopes of finding support for his beliefs before drawing any conclusions.
I agree with what Matt said; I've also been wondering how evolution could have been possible as there was no death before the first sin. I think Susan also has a point. As far as I'm concerned, the Bible and the evolution can't be united.
However, I don't say this in order to attack against you, Mr. Collins; we both serve the same God, even though we disagree about certain matters. I'm just curious about how you would explain these things.
Sorry if my English is bad.
While it may be tempting to piece God and evolution together, this kind of relationship just isn't compatible. The Bible states that sin brought literal and spiritual death and suffering into the world (Rom 5:12). Jesus certainly interpreted Genesis 1-2 literally (Mark 10:6, Matt 19:34), as we should expect Him to, since He is the one who created all things. The gospel writers viewed Adam as a literal man, not a myth (Luke 3:38). It was because of Adam's fall, which brought the curse of sin and death, that Christ's redemptive mission was necessary. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Romans 5:19
Personally, I rather enjoyed reading both this article and Francis Collins' book. No, I don't agree with everything he has written and there is a lot I would like to discuss with him. But this is a leading scientist who has a very warm and lively evangelical testimony. Hurrah! He has made a lot of people think. I admire his courage.
I have to say that I am somewhat saddened by the tone of some of the above comments. No major denomination has ever produced a creedal confession which refers to the precise way in which God created the world. Many of the great Reformed theologians of the 19th century were quite happy with Darwin's theory as they simply saw it as the outworking of God's providential control of all the details of life. The central feature of Darwinian evolution is natural selection; to me and many others that fits very well with our Lord's statement that God ‘micromanages’ even demise of a single sparrow.
Mr. Goodyear, just because Mr. Collins was not asked to contribute to the movie does not discount it; neither does the New York Times article; that article is typical of liberal papers; I'm very surprised you referred to it!
Regarding "Expelled...", I did see the movie last weekend and I can tell you it was clear and to the point - and, it told the truth about how Intelligent Design Professors are ostrasized and even fired just because they wish to teach an alternate view of science along with the other view, Evolution. In the 1980's when I was a college student, I saw first hand how some college instructors would go out of their way to put down Creationism, Evangelical Christianity, the U.S. and of course Ronald Reagon, the current Repubican President at the time. It bothered me a great deal then, so I applaud Ben Stein and his movie. Bottom Line: I just want to know Collins real motive for hanging onto and even defending Evolution.
I have seen Expelled, and there are many valid and interesting points made in the film. However I think that it is dangerous to become militaristic in our thinking about evolution. As the film points out evolution, as change over time, is not being questioned. What is being questioned is Neo-Darwinism and some of the implicit metaphysical assumptions made there in.
Science is the study of the tangible, the evident; it asks questions of what and how. It is not intended to ask questions of why, that is the realm of metaphysics, religion, and philosophy. Evolution is not implicitly dangerous or anti-religious. It becomes dangerous when people make it so. Evolution does not beget Nazism; evil people will use any tool for with evil intentions. Evolution is a tool it can be used to see the beauty and complexity of God's design, or it can be used to justify a holocaust.
People like Dawkins will argue that religion does not belong in the science classroom but his hypocrisy is easily seen in so far as he has made science his religion. He believes that science (evolution) is the proof text for atheism. His arrival at this belief is inevitable because he is asking science to answer a 'why' question. As I said before science is not meant to answer questions of why or inquires of purpose, if you push science to this limit the inevitable answer is that there is no why, no purpose i.e. atheism.
Science can not tell us why we are here it is not supposed to do so. The provocative question that Expelled does ask is; how did evolution begin, was it a designer or random chance. It would seem that one answer leads to theism and the other atheism, ironically, to arrive at either conclusion is, at this point ,due to the evidence or lack there of, a leap of faith.
Up to this point I have focused mainly on origins and appropriate lines of inquiry. As for issues of macro-evolution vs. Biblical literalism i.e. the Genesis account, I as of yet do not feel knowledgeable enough to comment in depth. All I can say is that I have faith and even an understanding that God is our creator, and that we should all focus or attentions more on our responsibilities to the present than our debates of the past.
For those that made it all the way to this point thank you for sticking with me.
In Him,
-Matthew
David, it's interesting that you use the word compromise. I'll have to chew on that for a bit.
Chris, the comments could be worse, but the tone bothers me too. You are absolutely right that we interviewed him precisely because he challenges some preconceptions in both the church and the scientific community.
When I read Collins' book, I have to admit that it made me cry at one point. It surprised me that a book filled with scientific arguments would do that. (It also tells the story of his conversion in an incredibly moving way.)
I realized how much I hate the science/faith division. In my heart so much of the division feels like a false dichotomy. I don't agree with Collins on all fronts—nor do I understand the science enough to disagree really. But I long to see Christians embrace reason again as part of faith.
Susan, Francis Collins explains his arguments very well in his book, The Language of God.
To everyone who has commented: thank you so much!
A big part of what we are trying to do at TheHighCalling.org is show the breadth of how Christians are seeking to serve God in the working world. We are also trying to be a place that models good, healthy Christian dialogue. This is why we give space occasionally to voices that challenge us. Your comments also help challenge us. Thank you for them.
And please, feel welcome to click over to my profile and send me a personal email if you'd like to dialogue with me about specifics.
If I could say, I'm impressed by the tone here. Honest conversation without malicious accusation! And these are things that reach deep into our hearts and souls; of course we would have some measure of passion (what would it mean if we had none?).
That said, I'm also impressed that The High Calling would run this article knowing the potential for conflict. Bravo for the courage. Doubly so since it is an on-line forum, where it's easier to sometimes forget there is a person on the other end... someone who thinks, loves, laughs, cries, cares.
I plan to read this book. I have members of my familky who are physicians who have questions about Christianity and they don't fully embrace- or demonstrate Faith- because they want empirical evidence. I have been keeping thme in prayer because I know onlyh the Holy Spirit can bring them to Christ- but perhaps this book will help them to hear God calling them.
As a child I remember learning about prehistoric man and being very confused by what I had been taught about Adam and Eve. I asked my mother and she replied 'Adam and Eve were cavemen' which made sense to me. Perhaps she was onto something!
Psalm 90:5-6 says" You sweep men away in the sleep of death; they are like the new grass of the morning-though in the morning it springs up new, by evening it is dry and withered." My grass doesn't spring up in the morning and wither in the evening- but I am bound to a 24 hour day in this completed world. Could it be possible that the days during creation were longer- which could account for the passage of time for evolution?
I still believe we were created as man and woman- that we did not evolve from apes like Darwin hypothesized. But I can accept that this form we have today evolved from an earlier human form. Just look how humans have changed in the last 100 years. Lets all keep praying for understanding and that our understanding will help to bring glory to God and advance the Kingdom of Christ :)